From Redditor kgskippy10
Today’s speculation will be about the Vittorio Veneto class of battleships.
http://www.navypedia.org/ships/italy/it_bb_24.gif
General Characteristics
The Vittorio Veneto class was first launched in 1940 with the Vittorio Veneto being the first of the class completed. Later, the Italia (Or Littorio), Roma, and Impero were also part of the class. The class was originally the product of a way to combat the French in the Mediterranean, specifically after the launch of the Dunkerque and the Strasbourg. The result was the Vittorio Veneto class. The class saw extensive use in the Mediterranean, often skirmishing with the British over convoys. The Vittorio Veneto had the most experience fighting, but the Littorio, or eventually the Italia after the fall of Mussolini, also saw some action. The Roma really was never able to get underway due to attacks on it during its completion, and the Impero never finished sailing. Interestingly enough, none of the battleships were sunk by enemy ships, and rather the Roma was only sunk by German glider Bombs and the Impero was sunk by the allies after she was taken over by the Germans in the Italian Armistice.
http://www.perthone.com/images/mat-veneto-.gif
Armament
The Vittorio Veneto class had a main armament of 9 380 mm guns in triple turrets. In addition, the class was outfit with 12 155 mm guns as secondaries as well as 4 120 mm guns. Rounding out the AA would be 12 90 mm guns, 20 37mm guns and 16 20 mm guns. Now, while the treaty limit for gun size on a battleship were 405mm , the Vittorio Veneto class was outfit with the 380mm guns because of the limited capacity of Italian ordinance industry. That being said, the guns supposedly were able to have a max range of 42,062 meters because of the barrels. By comparison, the Tirpitz has the same caliber guns, and has a range of 36,500 meters in theory, though a range of 21,000 meters in game. I think you could see the Vittorio Veneto’s have an in game range of somewhere around 24,000 meters.
Continue reading “Speculation: Vittorio Veneto Class”
Category: Historical Articles
Romanian Tank Destroyers in World of Tanks
By SovietTenkDestroyer and Seb
Hello! We have some Romanian tank destroyers that can make it into the game. Romania was an unspoken ally probably because they were not part of Tripartite Pact like Italy and Imperial Japan. While they didn’t make a lot of tanks, they started gaining grounds towards the end of the war where German and Romanian industries started cooperating more and more, such as the Mareșal tank which they wanted to make a SPAA platform using a 37mm AA gun and co-producing the tank with the Jagdpanzer 38(t) Hetzer by using German equipment. None of this became reality because Romania switched sides late in the war. This will not be it’s own tree because of the lack of tanks, instead it will be a part of the German tree with it’s own emblems and camouflage to accommodate the German tank destroyer tree. Too many non-German tanks that are part of the tree are plagued by panzer gray base colors and German emblems such as the Toldi, Panzer 58, and possibly the Turan. Just to be clear, I want a complete tech tree to come first such as the possible Swedish tree which could come very, very soon (Seb on the other hand is against it and promotes the glorious unified EU tree). Most of these tank destroyers are lightly armored and have powerful guns for their tiers, nothing really insane, but just pretty good. My past reworks were done for my own enjoyment, which have a very little chance of ever being implemented, but I hope I can implement this proposal.
Some of this may be inaccurate and may change in the future, including vehicles. Hopefully, accuracy will improve in the future or I’m already accurate historicity-wise. Some things will change or be added.
Insignias/Emblems, Base Color(s), and Camouflage
Base Color(s):
First off, there are a couple of base colors for these. The TACAM tank destroyers usually used the olive drab green, French export tanks used French Army green (Similar to the olive drab green), and German export tanks used panzer grey early in the war and dunkelgelb on the later German tanks. From tier 3 to 5, they will have an olive drab color while the tier 2 tank will have the French Army green. Here are some pictures.
French Army Green/Olive Drab Green
Panzer Gray Continue reading “Romanian Tank Destroyers in World of Tanks”
Bizarre armor projects of the '40s. David and Goliath
http://static-ptl-ru.gcdn.co/dcont/fb/image/1goliaf.jpg
What’s more important in battle – camouflage and maneverability or protection and firepower? This question is not new. Some self-proclaimed inventors of the ’40s asked themselves this question while working on another odd piece of armor.
In contrast to many other projects, oftentimes absolutely fictional, the inventors in this article didn’t try to create a vehicle for all imaginable needs. Quite the contrary, they tried to make their tank excel in one category. Maybe this was the reason why their projects appeared more realistic compared to others.
Coffins on wheels
In March 1942 the soldier of 1150th rifle division F.Z. Dymko send a description of a “Masked tank destroyer” to the GABTU. The author omitted any foreword and started his description right away: “The tank has a low height – 600mm in the front, 900mm when placed on wheels… Overall length 3300mm”. Thanks to it’s small dimensions, the vehicle could hide even behind minor obstacles. It seems this is why Dymko called his tank “masked”.
“The tank can dig in at any moment and fire from a trench… Can fill the trench in a few minutes and continue moving” – Dymko added, not specifying how. The armament of the vehicle should consist of a machinegun and a flamethrower. The author proposed an atriculated telescopic sight to fire the machinegun. The flamethrower would “destroy the enemy in their trenches, in a hut, in an attic and any terrain fold”.
The inventor proposed to protect his vehicle with three-layered armor with an overall thickness of 25mm. In the ’40s, this meant that if the tank couldn’t hide properly, the enemy would surely destroy it. Another feature praised by the author was that the crew consisted of only one person, who would be lying flat inside the vehicle.
Simultaneously with Dymko’s proposal, lieutenant Kozhuhov sent his proposal to the GABTU. He called his project “Tank-turtle” and wrote that his vehicle “has dimensions smaller than any existing tank. Maximum height is about 0,75m, width is 0,8m and overall length is 2,4m”.
It was a tankette which had some structural features. First and foremost, the suspension of the “tank-turtle” had no springs. The author proposed to compensate them with a soft lining on the inner side of the body. Here, Kozhuhov had to admit: “This limits the movement speed to about 10-15km/h, since the presence of the gunner-driver during higher speeds… would be problematic”. It’s not excluded that the name of the vehicle was connected to its low speed. Kozhuhov asked to use as many motorcycle parts as possible to construct his tankette, stating that inclusion of parts like transmission, clutch and even pedals would eliminate the need to develop them separately.
Continue reading “Bizarre armor projects of the '40s. David and Goliath”
Bizarre armor projects of the '40s. Steam tanks
Time for a new historical article!
http://static-ptl-ru.gcdn.co/dcont/fb/image/2steamtank.jpg
In 1915 an unknown inventor wrote: “Steam as a force once changed the entire structure of the world’s appliances and gradually provided its usage in all kinds and shapes, but this gigantic force is not used for defense until today”. There are a few projects which were proposed some three decades later. It seems that their authors were inspired exactly by these words.
Steam which breaks the bones
This project has no author or date supplied to it, it’s context however implies that it was developed during WWII. The unknown inventor proposed a means to fight the enemy as follows: “Using the gases produced by the tank, a device is to be installed providing heated water which then vaporizes instantly and a nozzle exhausts a mix of water and steam to scald the enemy”.
This thought was inspired by steam locomotives which could exhaust steam pillars to a height of up to 20 meters. The author thought that simply installing the smokestack horizontally would be enough to spray the fascists with steam and boiling water. Even flamethrowers wouldn’t be able to cope with such an attack.
Further description of the vehicle unveiled additional advantages. Thanks to the nozzles, the tank could create a cheap and easy smokescreen. Additional exhausts on the bottom of the vehicle could fry the enemy in their own trenches. Of course, all of this required to burn a huge amount of fuel, but the inventor assured: “The protection of tank and crew is worth the additional fuel cost”. The peak of rationalizing this proposal was a variant to spray steam together with poisonous gases.
While the inventor awaited an answer from the people’s commisariat of defense, he didn’t waste time. The next letter contained a different battle tactic: exploding steam boilers, delivered to occupied territory. However this had nothing to do with armored vehicles already.
Both proposals of the unknown author remained without answer, since he also did not provide a return address.
Zaitsev’s steam tank
A message from mechanic L.I. Zaitsev from Kuybyshev (now – Samara), written in November 1942, was succint. The author seemed to have “suffered out” his plan of a steam tank: “I consider it my duty to inform the Joint Staff of that which plagues me day and night, which I spent working on during nightly hours after my shift at the factory, which would not let me sleep at night”.
http://static-ptl-ru.gcdn.co/dcont/fb/image/1steamtank.jpg
Continue reading “Bizarre armor projects of the '40s. Steam tanks”
Soviet Medium Tank Historical Rework
By SovietTenkDestroyer (teaser: he is working on an historical Romanian branch proposal with help from me at the moment 🙂 )
To start it off, I personally don’t find the Russian meds “overpowered”. I get that the T-62A and the Object 140 are stronger than the other tier 10 mediums, but I wouldn’t call them “overpowered”. Same with the T-54. Yes, it does have HEAT with 10,000,000 mm of penetration, but lets be honest… Which tier 9 medium doesn’t? I get it that you’re “forced” to fire HEAT because of the low penetration. I however, never used it and I will never use HEAT on my T-54. Anyways, the Russian mediums are a bit inaccurate. They’re too inaccurate. They just have modules that were never on those tanks and that were present on other variants. So let’s continue.
While I do sometimes call these reworks, “proposals”, they’re mostly thought experiments for me if such a thing took place. I don’t really expect to be listened to by WarGaming.
Disclaimer: These are just stats that I would think would happen if such a rework took place
Tier 7: T-34-100 or T-44
The T-44 seems more fit than the T-34-100. I understand that the T-34-100 was once in the game as part of the T-34-85, but it could actually be premium as tier 7 or tier 8 (Won’t perform as well). Plus, it is kind of boring to play the same tank three times. Anyways, I still have PTSD from playing the T-43 and my crew is still recovering from all the 1st degree burns that they have suffered through. Granted, I was sort of a noob when I played the tank, but I still hated it when I re-bought it. No armor, mediocre gun, tall, and drenched in gasoline. I would suggest to add two hull variants for the T-44. The T-44-100 with the D-10T and the regular T-44. “Isn’t the T-44-100 already in the game as a tier 8 premium?” Why yes it is, but this version will be equipped with the 100mm D-10T instead of the 100mm LB-1 as I said earlier. It will also gain some side skirts. Because of the armament and armor, it will have to have nerfed terrain resistances and nerfed gun performances. Pretty much a decently armored medium with a good gun. About the T-44 variants the regular T-44 will have the 85mm ZiS-S-53 and the 85mm D5T-85BM (Unhistorical, but for the sake of easier grinding). The T-44-100 variant will give you the option of getting the 100mm D-10T.
Continue reading “Soviet Medium Tank Historical Rework”
Speculation: French Cruiser de Grasse/Colbert
I decided to look at the French cruiser de Grasse/Colbert (although I’ll refer to the de Grasse since it was first commissioned). Now, i want to get things straight first and foremost, i expect this ship to be a premium. It just doesn’t fit in anywhere else, and as you’ll read, it’ll be something more understandable.
Anyways.
http://www.erisers.co.uk/Web/Site/ERisers/Res/Image/galleries/Sea/De%20Grasse%201950s%20French%20cruiser%20Heller%20kit%20Built%20by%20Ed%20.jpg
General Ship Characteristics
The de Grasse was a French light cruiser that was originally laid down in 1938, but was never completed because of that whole World War II thing. Anyways, the ship was never scrapped as someone might expect as the Germans worked to recoup some of the resources that were used in production of the ship. However, the ship was eventually completed in 1951, and then towed to Brest for completion of the ship where it was intended to be an anti-aircraft cruiser (see where I’m going with this?). The de Grasse was commissioned in 1956. Eventually, the Colbert was commissioned in 1959 and joined the de Grasse.
http://www.navypedia.org/ships/france/fr_cr_127.gif
Armament
Things actually get kind of interesting here with the de Grasse. originally it was intended to have a three triple 152 mm turrets, possibly similar to that of the Konigsberg in game. However, because of the fact that the ship never finished completion until after the war, the idea for 152 mm guns was scrapped. Instead, the de Grasse was outfitted with 16 x 127 mm guns in 8 turrets. In addition to that, it had another 10 double turrets that housed 57 mm guns. The ship, although originally intended to have torpedoes, scrapped them when the conversion to a full fledged anti-aircraft cruiser.
Machinery, Displacement, and Dimensions
The de Grasse was equipped with geared steam turbines with four boilers output into two shafts. In total, it was able to output 86,000 shp, resulting in a speed in excess of 32 knots (it was reported to have been able to reach 33.5 knots). In all, once finished, the de Grasse displaced 9,389 tons. The result was a ship that was 199 meters long with a beam of 18.6 meters and a draught of 5.5 meters. The dimensions of the ship are pretty varied due to the fact that it was changed during it’s conversion in 1938 to 1961, and then the Colbert was again different in dimensions.
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/croiseur/colbert/histoire01.jpg
Armor
in terms of armor, well there wasn’t a whole lot. The de Grasse boasted at most 100 mm of belt armor and 28 mm of deck armor. Basically, the armor isn’t going to stand up to a whole lot.
Other Characteristics
There are a few things to note about the de Grasse. When it was originally planned, it was intended to have the not only a complement of two seaplanes for the ship, it also was planned to have two catapults, so possibly two sea planes in the air at once. In addition, when the ship was captured by the Germans, there were plans to actually convert it into a German light aircraft carrier but was never completed in that capacity. The de Grasse served with the french navy until 1972 as the flagship for the nuclear task force. Her sister ship, the Colbert, was completely refit and turned into a missile cruiser and served as the Mediterranean flagship until 1997.
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNFR_5-54_m1948_De_Grasse_pic.jpg
In game Implementation and Atlanta Comparisons
I’m pretty sure, at this point, everyone is saying “Skippy, we don’t need more shitty Atlanta’s in the game”. Well, we don’t need Atlantas, we need something a little bit different. The de Grasse is different. Even though it has similar armament and purpose, the de Grasse is also significantly larger, and has a different turret layout. In addition, the gun characteristics would be different and so would the AA ability (AA would be stronger on the de Grasse IMO). I would expect that the de Grasse would have smaller arcs and possibly more range to compensate for its larger size and advanced age. I think it would still be slotted in well at tier 7 and could compete more competently than the Atlanta.
I think we could very well see the de Grasse as one of the first French ships in the game. Although, we could also see the de Grasse in the 1938 configuration fit into the actual tech tree and then the Colbert be slotted as a premium.
Tank Myths – Russian T-34
For the second Tank Myths article I have decided to talk about some myths on the Russian T-34. It’s considered by many a revolutionary tank and by far the best tank ever built during World War II. My personal opinion is that it was highly overrated and exaggerated.
Myth #1 – T-34 was the first tank ever to use sloped armour and nothing could penetrate it.
It is widely believed that the T-34 was the first tank ever to use sloped armour. However this is not true, French tanks like SOMUA S35 and R35, which had fully cast hulls and turrets, already had sloped armour. In World War I, sloped armour had been partially implemented by the French on their first tank, the Schneider CA1.
Other countries, like Germany, did some studies on the use of sloped armour before World War II and had several reasons not to use it:
- Sloped armour reduces the tank volume, resulting in reduced space for internal modules and crew space.
- It limits the gun size, one of the major points against sloped armour.
- Sloped armour changes the center of gravity in the tank.
We can correctly say, that it was the first mass produced tank to fully use the advantages of sloped armour, but it’s highly incorrect to say it was the first tank ever to use it.
Possible Premiums: Tier 6 Flakpanzer Panther
By SovietTenkDestroyer
Don’t get me wrong! The last thing I want to do is to keep giving WarGaming ideas for premiums. However, these premiums are way too weird and have major drawbacks to be actual normal tanks. This will be a new series (If Seb allows it) where I propose some of the semi-normal to weirdest vehicles that in my opinion, can’t fit into the tree normally. I was originally going to do the Chrysler TV-8, but I found out the gun stuck in place :/
Tier 6 Premium: Rheinmetall Flakpanzer Panther 
In 1941, Krupp started to design a VFW (Versuchsflakwagen) with the 8,8cm Flak L/71 AA gun. This vehicle was to incorporate parts from the Luchs, Leopard (Light tank), Tiger, or Panther. It was then decided to redesign the VFW using Leopard components. With one exception, it was to use smaller road wheels and wider tracks than the Panther. This redesigned vehicle was known as the VFW II. It was decided that the basis of the VFW II was now going to be Panther II and the Panther tanks ready to be converted were sent back. This most likely delayed the production of this vehicle. While this was going on, Rheinmetall-Borsig was developing their own version of this vehicle. This is the vehicle that I’m proposing. The chassis mainly used Panther components. These components were final drives, foot controls, steering gears, linkages, transmission, Maybach HL 230 Engine, etc. This vehicle used a large turret that housed a 8,8cm Flak 41 L/74 (same as Flak Bus). This turret had the capability of being detached and mounted on the ground with four outriggers which of course provided stability. In 1943, development decreased of both Rheinmetall and Krupp’s vehicles because more urgent designs with few crew members were needed. It was also scrapped because the stationary Flak 8,8cm were capable of handling high-flying aircraft. Gameplay wise, this vehicle will play very closely to the “Toaster” or “Flak Bus” at tier 5. Fragile, large, fast, paper armor, and armed with a powerful gun. It also has a fully rotating turret that the “Flak bus” doesn’t. In practice, will this be a good premium? I don’t know for sure. It’s large which means that it has no camo, but it also has a fully rotating turret with an 8,8cm. Overall, this vehicle might be mediocre to decent, but premiums aren’t supposed to be as good as their regular counterparts.
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TBTD – The only Dutch Tank in WWII & The Dutch Defensive Strategy
In Throwback Thursday we’ll look back on some tank (historical) peculiarities. This week we’ll start with the Dutch Renault FT-17 and its fate throughout the war.
The Dutch might not be known for their extensive combat and resistance against the German invaders in May 1940. A little background insight will be given to show why the Dutch army was far from ready when Germany invaded.
Continue reading “TBTD – The only Dutch Tank in WWII & The Dutch Defensive Strategy”