Written by Purecycle for TAP:
I accept this challenge. (Also that 5/10 was a reference to TTS where Rogal Dorn made his review on the Codex Astartes, so bring me those laborers. Anyways…)
Introduction
Hello, it is I Purecycle, the mysterious shitposter who only appears when the tide goes out and there’s a blue moon.
Some of you may know me as the guy who hates Wargaming’s design choices when it comes to implementing content for World of Tanks. And I’ve said in the past that I’ll never post my content and info simply because I was, (And still am.) disappointed that Wargaming has no interest in Implementing new Tech Trees for World of Tanks. Because no other nation is as glorious as the Soviet Union because they’re the masters of tank warfare.
But… With the most recent hint that Czechoslovakia will be getting its 2nd line after 6 years of blue balls, where Wargaming constantly stated that there weren’t enough tanks to make at least one new line. (But apparently it’s okay to make half of the British and American tanks premiums, killing off future lines and content, such as the American Heavium line and the British Auto-loading line. To name a few of the fallen…)
So I’ve dug up my old Czechoslovakian tech tree and found its original file after thinking it was lost. And me being curious, I’ve scoured the web to look and see if anyone had any updated info on Czechoslovakia’s tank development and if anyone had made tech trees of their own based on that info. And I found that a lot of work has been done and after putting my info and theirs together…
I’ve created this…
This is my Tech Tree Rework proposal for Czechoslovakia in World of Tanks.
Overview
As you can see… It’s very big. The biggest I’ve done yet and it’s impressive to say the least.
There are over 58 tanks in total and 46 of those tanks are new. Also there is quite a number of tier 8 premium tanks, one for every category so a lack of crew trainers is no issue. (If Wargaming sticks to their Crew rework plans that is, which is hot garbage by the way…) You can also see that there are 6 lines in total. A SPG line, a TD line, a Heavy Line, 2 Medium lines with one ending in a tier 10 Heavy. And a Light line.
Well without further ado let me give a quick rundown. Starting from top to bottom.
The Czechoslovakian SPGs are very similar to the French SPGs we have in-game. Fast moving and some of them are equipped with turrets giving them great versatility and firing angles. But their low caliber howitzers mean they have a hard time dealing damage to large groups of tanks and super heavies. That is of course not a problem for the tier 10, but I’ll go into detail later.
The Czechoslovakian Tank Destroyers are a blend between the existing Czechoslovakian medium tank line in-game and the Swedish tank destroyers as these TDs only pack 100mm and 122mm guns, low caliber for TDs at higher tiers. But just like their medium cousins, these TD’s can move and pack a powerful burst of damage. As these TDs have a quick between shell reloading time. But more info later, let’s move on.
The Czechoslovakian Heavies are similar to the rear turreted heavies found on the Soviet tech tree in-game. But these tanks lack the armor and rely on their steep angles to bounce shells. Also these tanks are unique as they have a choice to use the same Auto-loading guns also found on their medium cousins. Or they can use their exclusive high caliber single fire guns. Also these tanks are gifted with great gun depression. 8 to 12 degrees of gun depression based on which angle your hull is facing.
Alright, at the halfway point. We have the 2nd medium branch. Which ends with a heavy tank so that should give you an idea of what this line is about. Armed with only 100mm guns, yes that’s right a Tier 10 Heavy with a 100mm gun. Supplied with good armor akin to the German E50M and Soviet Object 430U lines in-game. These brawling tanks want to be the first into the fight. However these tanks sadly don’t have access to autoloaders like their cousins do. I’ll talk more about them later at different point let’s keep going…
The OGs. The 1st medium tank line will stay the same. But new quality of life improvements will be added. This line starting from its new tier 8 tank will exclusively be about their autoloaders. That means that the Škoda T 50 will lose its single fire guns, and will start out stock with an 88mm gun which is the same gun found on the premium tier 8 medium tank already in-game. As for the new tier 7 and 8 tanks I’ll talk about those soon.
And finally the most interesting line and the most controversial one. Which can possibly break the rules of the game when it comes to how tanks are placed by their tiers.
The Czechoslovakian light tanks are unique in that the largest caliber gun these tanks can equip is 85mm, meaning they have very low alpha damage. But these tanks pack quite a surprise. They have large autoreloader magazines. 10 rounds on the tier 9 and 10 and all of them have quick between shell reloading times. So anyone who has played the AMX 13 57 or the old M41 Walker Bulldog knows how powerful these tanks can be in certain situations. I’m saving these guys for last so look forward to these ones.
The premiums and low tier tanks will get their own sections where I’ll go into more detail about them.
Conclusion
And with that out of the way… Why? Why would I bother with this stuff if I hate how Wargaming implements content and that I should know very well that Wargaming will disappoint me again as they always do…
Because the Czechoslovakian Tech Tree and its development hold an important place in my heart. Because the Czechoslovakian Tech Tree wasn’t developed or researched by Wargaming or by their subsidiaries… Czechoslovakia only got in because of the efforts of few people who actually worked in tandem together to make the line a reality. In other words the Czechoslovakian tech tree was a fan project that had some serious effort put into it.
And because of that success, I as well as many others wanted to get into this stuff too. Who knows what exists in our local archives, what can be hiding there and what it could mean for your country’s war effort during one of mankind’s darkest eras.
It was through their efforts where I started to archive dig too. And did my research on Canadian tanks, which soon spiraled into other subjects. Like my current search into the Canadian battleship projects that a few I’ve found. (Just need a tier 4 or 5 BB and a Commonwealth BB line can be implemented into WoWS, but let’s stick to tanks for now.)
Anyways before I get melodramatic, let’s discuss the elephant in the room, or should I say cat.
Cats of Schrödinger
So how did I and many others find these vehicles? After all how can such a small nation develop so many tanks. Sadly many of the archives in that region of the world were raided, burned, flooded and in some cases all of the above. So this means that we can’t even rely on them for info. In fact one of the tanks, the V8H-Sv was found in an archive in Sweden of all places. This means that other nations must have been watching what was going on in Czechoslovakia throughout the 30’s to the 70’s. And one of those nations happens to have an infamous spy network.
In the 30’s to the 70’s the United States of America had many agents placed in Czechoslovakia during its occupation under Nazi Germany, and the Soviet Union. One or many of these agents were stationed and ordered to observe Czechoslovakia’s armor development programs and take note of their armored force.
If one thing could be said is that it is a serious mess, like someone’s first wiki article, so much inconsistency and misidentifications of tanks that’s it’s hard to even take it all in properly. So this means that these tanks are… Pseudo fakes.
“an A press is an A press you can’t just say it’s only half.”
TJ “Henry” Yoshi
Well in this case a tank can’t be real and fake at the same time. It’s either real or fake, and this I agree. But with Wargaming’s latest additions to the game and after digging around in CIA files there is enough evidence to say…
Something was going down in Czechoslovakia, and not just in Czechoslovakia, but in other Warsaw Pact countries too. Let’s just say that Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania, and even Yugoslavia! were cooking up some ideas with each other. What ideas? I don’t know but go look at the tanks of these nations. Don’t they look familiar?
Like you can take the bogeys off a TVP T50/51 and you can slap them onto a M-636 Kondor and it would function as normal, and those recently found Hungarian medium tanks that were posted here happened to share a similar appearance to these Czechoslovakian heavy tanks. And that a group of heavy tanks were spotted moving from Czechoslovakia to Hungary by train around that time in the 1950’s.
If you show a casual tank head these images side by side they’ll think it’s the same tank when in reality it isn’t. But they look similar and happen to be 1950’s tanks.
But I’ll save that crazy stuff for another day. Just go dig around in the CIA’s declassified file archive here and have your mind blown like me.
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/
Anyways if you hate fake tanks, why are you even here? Nearly over half of the tanks in World of Tanks are fake. Fake to varying degrees yes, but read the quote above. Where do we draw the line when it comes to how content is handled? I can understand not liking fake tanks. But what has happened has happened and there’s no going back now.
TLDR; didn’t read lol. But still thank you for reading this. The future posts won’t be long and I’ll have a lot more pics on the tanks but you can google the names or follow this imgur link to find some more info if you’re impatient.
Still a big thanks to the efforts of those who have worked on this tech tree and if you have any issues with me using your info just let me know through comments.
Anyways enjoy yourselves and I’ll see you guys next week with more posts hopefully.
Well, you hate on WG’s design choises, but you still propose a new arty line… Seems like you dont know much about the game.
Only proposed them because Wargaming kept them and they’re planning on reworking them.
Which means that Wargamming wants to add new SPGs. Since they’ve been pushing bullshit onto the consumers since 2016. They’ve been testing to see what they can get away with without losing profits while making them.
See the 252u and the tier 10 reward/clan vehicles for example.
WG is shying away from adding more arty for obvious reasons so I wouldn’t bother suggesting more arty.
“It’s hard to draw a line, so let’s not draw one at all” is certainly very Wargaming-like approach to building branches. Still, that tier 8 light premium is a bold move to say the least.
As I said to another tech tree creator. (The one who proposed the Hungarian tech tree here awhile ago I believe.)
When I was designing these tech trees, I was doing it as if I were a member of the dev team. Hence why many of these tanks are here. Because knowing Wargaming and the community.
That the majority don’t care about historical accuracy. All that matters is if Wargaming can make a profit and if the community can break the game with it.
Then again Wargaming tends to surprise me with the decisions that they make. Makes me wonder after dealing with this company for over 14 years if I truely know them.
would the “Czech T-49 with wider tracks than te Soviet T-44 but cast/rounded front hull instead of sloped” be the misinterpretation of one of the other projects? like the Tatra heavy tanks? those are the only ones with rounded front hulls, right?
The real problem is WG can seemingly only justify new content if it brings a new mechanic to the game. So Japanese TDs being a line of Ferdinand like tanks doesn’t interest them, it’s not a new idea even if they had all the details to spit it out they won’t. So the question any line mockup has to answer is what new or unique playstyle does it add?
Anyways, thanks for the effort and the ideas. They’re an asset to the community even if WG couldn’t give a shit in the end. Feel bad for all the passion that went into the Swedish line on the forum for pretty much none of it to be used.
I wish for it to be added. Like so many other good community ideas. Thank you
Somehow i can’t find any declassified file archive in that link….
Somehow I can!
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP83-00415R010500100003-0.pdf
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP78-01617A000500110001-0.pdf
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP83-00415R007800070007-1.pdf
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP83-00415R001200110016-8.pdf
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP82-00457R001800120007-6.pdf
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP82-00046R000200290012-5.pdf
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP80-00810A004200020007-6.pdf
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP80T00246A032700250001-1.pdf
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP82T00709R000102850001-1.pdf
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP80T00246A032700230001-3.pdf
Bravo! I haven’t been on this site in a while and I’ve got to say my timing could not be more perfect! I enjoyed reading this article and you made some very good arguments why these tanks should be in the game. However, on the other side of the sword, there is the fact that there are very few records to suggest these tanks existed even on paper, and as many of us know, the armored vehicles in World of Tanks are usually based somewhat, notwithstanding how loseley based on real life designs and proposals. The tanks that are 100% science fiction- admittedly there are examples, are a stopgap between two or more vehicles that are presented as a logical progression of the vehicle over time as if it were a real example with various modernizations.
I still believe, however, that 1-10 scales, 0-5 stars, and many other rating systems start to lose their values and coherence when the sliders are messed with arbitrarily. For example, if you are rating everything 10/10 or 1/10, what is the point of the rest of those numbers? There should just be "good" or "bad" if people are going to use it that way. So in reflection of my previous article and this one, I would say that rather than 5/10, I would see my article as closer to 6 or 7, not because I am vain, but because 5/10 would mean sub-satisfactory and 6 or 7 would enter the territory of "I didn't hate it but it could have been better".In the case of the article we have here, it seems unlikely that any of the information here can be found as a leak from Wargaming, in academic readings, historical documents, and does not seem to present any evidence that this was an existing idea. Then again I could always be wrong, feel free to link me some sources if I am. That being said, the article is not complete trash, far from it! It was a pleasure to read and I am glad I inspired you to do this even if I was just being salty. Nevertheless, the article I just read does not seem to be tied down to anything in particular, there is little connecting this to official Wargaming employees or historical documents. As far as the light tanks go, Wargaming tried implementing controversial light tanks (if they can even be called that) in the past and have experienced serious backlash, so it seems they will be unlikely to do it again.
One thing in particular that jumps out to me is the Czech variant of Porsche's submission for the Tiger I. It seems rather unlikely to me that Wargaming will continue to implement clones of vehicles from other branches, seeing as they have largely discontinued the practice for the Chinese tech tree where it was most rampant.
All in all, I was very impressed with the article, probably would give it a solid 7.5 out of 10 seeing as it was a pleasure to read even if it was loosely tied down.
Fantasies. This will never happen.
Spy networks were definitely a thing back in the day. And occasionally, we still find information about some unknown country’s tanks in an archive far away. And sometimes even hidden in plain sight like with at least 1 Japanese conventional Heavy tank on an old WW2 tank recognition guide.
Notice any unknown tank here? https://posterspast.com/artscape/Posters_Past/cGraphics/arectan-G.jpg
We’ve somehow forgotten all about it for almost 80 years, until someone stumbled upon it in a British archive.
So to stumble upon a Czechoslovakian design in a Swedish archive doesn’t really surprise me.
I’m also curious to see what’s in those CIA archives, assuming I can find something of interest.
As for the “fakeness” of tanks; majority of players doesn’t seem to care enough, or even demand them knowing fully well they’re 100% fake (China TDs). So Wargaming knows that they can do stuff like that.
For new lines with gimmicks; its more interesting to add a new gimmick to the game than a line without a gimmick. Hence why some branches got pushed back and back over and over again because they got no gimmick (Japanese TDs). And also because they could easily implement them mechanically at any given time should they feel the need (assuming models/balancing is already done).
With the Japanese TDs in specific, they probably could’ve added them to the game a few years ago already if they had wanted to do so. Plenty of historical vehicles that were actually prototyped/produced. Plenty of other information known about them. Being released on Blitz and War Thunder as well… Etc. But its a “boring” branch from an “unpopular” nation.
So whats the Czech Tygr P? Any difference to note or is it something like the engine manufacturer.
Ahh its ok i found it: https://wikiwarriors.org/wiki/%D0%A2%D1%8F%D0%B6%D1%91%D0%BB%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BA_Tygr_(P)_%C5%A0koda
open in chrome and let that translate for you.
I like the Idea of another nation with a large amount of tanks but the problem is will it be fun to play ?
Because i’ve been in the game since 2012 and now i’ve been searching for new type of fun in the game like playing with the Buggi with it 100 howitzer that i discovered yesterday or Skoda T 50 with it magnificent burst fire.
What I’m saying is, in order to attract new player we may need to create some fake tank wich are fun to play and others real based tanks wich are a little more tricky to play. The historic battle was a good Idea but a little too raw to work well.
I like those amx 40 shape heavys btw, it will be fun if they are really included in the game
Thx for your work
I would be happy for them to introduce autocanons and pretty much any new system like area effect rockets that where used. Large area, lower damage, lots of crits, limited shots as often just a couple strapped to the sides. The turbo meds where a waste of time, especially as only 1 tank had it and that was junk. The last new fun thing they added where the pump arse swede Td’s. I think dropping all the lower tiers was a terrible idea as so many of us are ww2 fans and thats where a lot of them lay.
Impressive work!
I’m really curious about the upcoming articles about each branch. I hope they will be detailed, there’s nothing wrong with it, if they will be somewhat longer. I love reading about things like this, especially if there is proper research behind the writing, and the article is comprehensive enough with all the known information mentioned, and the original source reference linked.
Not sure, how consistent the SPG line would be, as each of them are either a bit too low-caliber or the opposite. That 305 mm mortar on the Tier 10 Panther chassis is way larger than any other howitzers in the game, while every other Czech arty in the branch are mounting 152 mm or smaller howitzers. I like the idea of another turreted SPG branch, and considering, that the Bat.-Chat. 155 mle. 58 has a relatively small-caliber howitzer compared to the same class/tier vehicles, I recommend replacing the Zb 16053 Panther with the Zb 5922-S on the TVP chassis (of course if you don’t want a turreted TD branch), and switching the Zb 16057 with the Zb 5913, so you have two turreted top tier self-propelled guns as the pinnacle of the line.
As far as I know, the SD-75 and the SD-100 tank destroyers are simply license-built SU-75/100s, without any modification (except a proposal to mount a 100 mm Skoda gun on the latter one). They would be even worse clones than what Kongzhong created. The VOSS with either the 75 mm L/50 or 150 mm derp howitzer, 50 mm hull armor, and 50 km/h top speed would be a pretty neat tank destroyer even in Tier 5. To replace the SD-100, Czechoslovakia modified the Hungarian 40M Turán I medium tank (which was eventually based on the Skoda S-IIc) in 1948, and two prototypes were successfully built and passed the factory trials as well. The reason, why is it a better alternative, is because it isn’t a clone vehicle, the Hungarian branch (as I presented) doesn’t need the Turán SPG, and they were designed, built, and used by Czechoslovakia. It was equipped with a 105 mm lehká houfnice vzor 18/40N howitzer, it had 50-60 mm frontal armor and roughly the same top speed as the SU-100.
https://imgur.com/a/3qWhWkD
I’d like to know more about the heavy tanks than what is mentioned in the article you shared!
https://vk.com/@zinoviy_alexeev-czech-heavy-tanks
Especially about the heavy tanks which were transported to Hungary from Czechoslovakia, as I haven’t heard of it yet.
And there can’t be any Czechoslovakian light branches without the famous Leták… 🙂
Keep up the good work, always happy to read such informative writings!
Hi!
I represent a russian team of military historians and reconstructors – authors of famous Ansaldo GL-4 and Czech Tatra-series HT reconstructions.
We would be happy to cooperate and to share with you some information about italian, hungarian and czech vehicles and guns that we’ve found (some of them are even reconstructed, many blueprints are restored in better quality, some popular myths are refuted).
Feel free to join us in VKontakte social network (it’s russian, but has English interface; many people of our team speak English, so there won’t be any problems with that), or to contact us via our official e-mail: zinoviy.alexeev@yandex.ru.