Medium Tank Rebalance: Iteration 2 and 1 Changes

Thanks to AgramerHR

Iteration 2 (Comparison with 1st Iteration)

STB-1 (πŸ‡―πŸ‡΅ Japan, MT-10)

– Reload time from 7 to 6.808 (current – 7.671)

– DPM from 3085.7 to 3172.6 (current – 3050.4)

– ROF from 8.571 to 8.813 (current – 7.821)

– Shell velocity (AP) from 1050 to 1185 (current: 1478)

– Shell velocity “gold” from 1050 to 950 (current: 1173)

– Front of the turret armour from 195 to 222 mm

– Increased armour of cupola of the tank

> Removed weakspots from the gun-mantlet

> Additionaly increased total armour of gun-mantlet

> Increased armour of front of cupola

Leopard 1 (πŸ‡©πŸ‡ͺ Germany, MT-10)

– Standard shell (AP) replaced from armour piercing composite rigid to armour piercing, is now canceled, the shell will remain as it is current

– Shell velocity (APCR) from 1380 to 1480 (current: 1478)

– Penetration “gold” from 315 to 323 (current: 330)

– Dispersion during vehicle movement 0.153 to 0.125 (current – 0.173)

– Dispersion during vehicle rotation from 0.153 to 0.125 (current – 0.173)

– Dispersion during the turret rotation at the maximum speed from 3.07 to 2.68 (current – 2.76)

– Dispersion at the maximum vehicle speed from 10.74 to 8.73 (current – 11.22)

– Dispersion at the maximum vehicle rotation speed from 7.36 to 5.98 (current – 9.32)

​

AMX 30 B (πŸ‡«πŸ‡· France, MT-10)

In this iteration tank didn’t receive any changes. It will remain as from the beginning. The tests will follow.

​

πŸ‡·πŸ‡Ί Objekt 430U and Objekt 430

– There won’t be any changes in 1.5.1 patch. Developers canceled all edits.

​

NEW, iteration 1:

Type 61 (πŸ‡―πŸ‡΅ Japan, MT-9)

– Standard shell was replaced from armour piercing composite rigid to armour piercing

– AP damage from 390 to 360

– gold damage from 390 to 360

– HE damage from 480 to 440

– DPM from 2440.3 to 2747

– Reload time from 9.589 to 7.863

– ROF from 6.257 to 7.631

– Shell velocity (AP) from 1478 to 1185

– Shell velocity (“gold”) from 1173 to 950

– Dispersion 0.345 to 0.364

– Aim time from 2.21 to 2.01

– Power from 604 to 750

– Specific power from 17.26 to 21.43

– Turning speed from 48 to 50

– Max. speed from 47.6 to 45

– Max. reverse speed from 20 to 23

– Health (HP) from 1700 to 1750

– Armour side of hull from 35 to 45

– Armour of the front of the turret from 70 to 85

– Armour of the sides of the turret from 60 to 80

– Dispersion during turret rotation from 0.134 to 0.105

– Dispersion during vehicle movement from 0.134 to 0.096

– Dispersion during vehicle rotation form 0.134 to 0.096

– Dispersion during the turret rotation at the maximum speed from 5.64 to 4.43

– Dispersion at the maximum vehicle speed from 6.39 to 4.32

– Dispersion at the maximum vehicle rotation speed from 6.44 to 4.79

​

STA-1 (πŸ‡―πŸ‡΅ Japan, MT-8)

– Penetration from 218.7 to 219

– DPM from 2002.3 to 2310.3

– Reload time from 7.192 to 6.233

– ROF from 8.343 to 9.626

– Shell velocity (AP) from 914 to 1080

– Dispersion from 0.345 to 0.364

– Aim time from 2.21 to 2.11

– Specific power from 16.73 to 19.07

– Dispersion during vehicle movement from 0.153 to 0.134

– Dispersion during vehicle rotation from 0.153 to 0.134

– Dispersion at the maximum vehicle speed from 6.9 to 6.04

– Dispersion at the maximum vehicle rotation speed from 6.75 to 5.91

​

STA-2 (πŸ‡―πŸ‡΅ Japan, MT-8, Premium)

– DPM from 2002.3 to 2145.3

– Reload time from 7.192 to 6.712

– ROF from 8.343 to 8.939

– Shell velocity (AP) from 853 to 988

– Shell velocity “gold” from 853 to 988

– Power from 570 to 700

– Specific power 16.76 to 20.59

– Max. reverse speed from 20 to 23

​

Leopard Prototyp A (πŸ‡©πŸ‡ͺ Germany, MT-9)

– “Gold” shell replaced from high explosive anti tank to armour piercing composite rigid

– “High explosive” shell replaced from HEP-T M393 to DM11

– AP damage from 390 to 420

– “gold” damage from 390 to 420

– penetration “gold” from 330 to 315

– HE damage from 480 to 510

– HE penetration from 53 to 105

– DPM from 2369.2 to 2551.5

– Shell velocity AP from 1478 to 1380

– Shell velocity “gold” from 1173 to 1613

– Dispersion from 0.307 to 0.297

– Aim time from 2.01 to 1.821

– Max. reverse speed from 23 to 20

– Turning speed from 42 to 40

– Dispersion during turret rotation from 0.134 to 0.096

– Dispersion during vehicle movement from 0.173 to 0.153

– Dispersion during vehicle rotation form 0.173 to 0.153

– Dispersion during the turret rotation at the maximum speed from 4.97 to 3.55

– Dispersion at the maximum vehicle speed from 11.22 to 9.97

– Dispersion at the maximum vehicle rotation speed from 7.25 to 6.14

​

Indien-Panzer (πŸ‡©πŸ‡ͺ Germany, MT-8)

– Changed description

– AP damage from 240 to 250

– Penetration form 212 to 218

– “gold” damage from 240 to 250

– HE damage from 320 to 350

– HE penetration from 45 to 90

– DPM from 2085.7 to 2172.60

– Dispersion from 0.326 to 0.307

– Aim time form 2.21 to 1.92

– Dispersion during vehicle movement from 0.211 to 0.192

– Dispersion during vehicle rotation form 0.211 to 0.192

– Dispersion at the maximum vehicle speed from 11.6 to 10.55

– Dispersion at the maximum vehicle rotation speed from 8.02 to 7.29

Panzer 58 Mutz / Panzer 58 FL / Panzer 58 / Schwarzpanzer 58 (Black) (πŸ‡©πŸ‡ͺ Germany, MT-8, Premium)

– AP damage from 240 to 250

– “gold” damage from 240 to 250

– HE damge from 320 to 330

– HE penetration from 45 to 90

– DPM from 1877.1 to 1955.4

– Shell velocity (AP) from 1000 to 1150

– Shell speed “gold” from 1250 to 1478

– View range from 380 to 390

– Dispersion form 0.345 to 0.326

– Health (HP) form 1300 to 1350

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38 thoughts on “Medium Tank Rebalance: Iteration 2 and 1 Changes

      1. I’m aware of that, and I’m fairly certain WG is aware of that as well, but they decline to do anything aboutit, sadly.

        Like

      2. Except that they are making changes to armor on the Type 61 (hull and turret) and on the STB1 (turret, mantlet, etc), along with changes to mobility. So these updates are more than just gun stats. There is no reason they couldn’t make changes to the armor on the objects.

        Like

        1. i will believe this when i will see
          for now they are just same idiots who just promore ruski bias and imbecile balance without weakpoints, p2w ammo and so on

          Liked by 1 person

    1. Lets hope they take another look at the tanks and nerf them in another way. It might actually be a good thing wg cancelled the current changes, otherwise we would have to deal with them for months before they would consider looking at them again!

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      1. I see what you mean, friend. Though how long will it take for them to actually change the armor values? Months? Years?…

        Like

    1. Are you joking ? APCR is better in any way for a tier 10 med …

      Pen drop at distance better for AP? nop, leo 1 (268 => 258 at 500m) 10mm, 430U (258 => 238 at 500m) 14mm…
      Normalization for 2Β° instead of 5 ? woaw that’s all ap do better ?

      Liked by 2 people

      1. You are not very smart, are you?
        Normalization angles does a lot more than simply “5? woaw, that is all ap do better?”, compared to shell pen loss, which is set by WG for each shell, not based on shell type itself. WG can easily keep the pen loss over distance the same. It used to be common knowledge that APCR had higher pen loss over distance compared to AP, but WG can do whatever it wants with that stat. So there goes your argument right out of the window any additional bonuses for AP.
        But, if you were a tiny bit smarter and knowledgeable about the mechanics, you would know 5ΒΊ of normalization not only affects the effective normal thickness, which can make a far greater difference at any distance than simply 10mm of penetration at 500m, but also affects double overmatch, triples overmatch and ricochet.

        Liked by 2 people

        1. For correction, 5ΒΊ never affects triples overmatch and ricochet. It does affect double overmatch, but there is no impact on this gun, since a 52 mm armor will be penetrated on 70 degree due to the high penetration.

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          1. Wrong. It does, because triple overmatch prevents ricochet, but the shell still needs to penetrate and can bounce off the armor. If the angle is high enough that the effective thickness is higher than your penetration, you can still fail to penetrate and removing 5ΒΊ of angle instead of 2ΒΊ is still better.

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  1. Seems okay to me,just please don’t put the hydraulic suspension on STB if you wanna make the game more “oldtimer” as you said you want,and why those shell velocity nerfs on japanese tanks??

    Is this a good post for 1.5.1 feedback?

    Like

    1. Velocity nerfs on the STBso that youre forced to use it in CQC like WG wants to do with the STB. As for hydropneumatic suspension,I wouldnt mind it if it were more responsive than the swedes, at least give it the gimmick that it is a manual suspension like that of war thunder.

      Like

  2. To make them really different i bet. They are melee tanks. Good things coming for the Leopard branch, i would have hope a 0.10 reduction for my Schwarzpanzer however. I might drop coated optics then.

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  3. I dissagree with the buffs to e.g. the indien panzer and would much rather perfer nerfs to other tanks. The indien panzer is actually well balanced it has 212mm pen which was the second highest back in the days and it paid for it with other stats being bad. I wish WG would understand that you cant just buff DPM, penetration and gun handling on all tanks, that will have huge consequences for the overall balance. These days people hardly aim, they just snapshot using gold and that is because they cant afford to expose themselves as they could back in the days because all tanks become more accurate, has better gun handling and pen.

    As much as I have played the indien panzer and understand its flaws, buffing it is wrong. We dont need MTs with 219mm pen on tier 8 and 0.3 accuracy. What made tier 8 former balanced was just that tanks had decent stats, they were not over the top. I can even argue that tanks like t-34-2 is balanced. It really performs as a pure tier 8 MT should perform historically. All other MTs are in my book unbalanced as they have far too much firepower and armor on tier 8. I would wish that the global rebalance would be a global nerf. I am not enjoying this fast paced, snapshotting, gold spamming game that WOT has become.

    Having MTs with almost 220mm pen and good accuracy makes armor on tanks like kv4, tiger II and even ISM less important. Why must MTs pen tanks like these easilly frontaly? I have played for 5 years with tier 8 MTs with no gold and I have faced majority of tier 9 and 10 tanks but I dont expect to pen them frontaly. That is what balance is and it is sad that the new generation of player or superunicum tryhards doesn’t understand that. Playing a tier 8 MT historically meant that you denied yourself damage in order to spot and track and act as a support. This is not the case anymore, specially as everybody is shooting gold.

    The only thing indien panzer needed was possibly a gun handling buff thats it. But more precisely I think tanks like progetto 46, T44, super pershing etc. should have been nerfed to retain their historical MT characteristics. Majority of HTs on tier 8 also needs to be rebalanced and possibly nerfed, specially some of the newely added HTs and also TDs.

    Liked by 4 people

    1. while i agree with you theres also another problem
      and that is : PREMIUM TANKS wich “CANT BE NERFED”…

      since those tanks are already buffed because idiotic reasons…theres simply no other way to reestablish the balance but to buff all others to that imbecile level…

      sad story but thats the truth…
      game is fucked up and cant be 100% corrected again…can be just polished

      Like

      1. Yeah that is true, whole game is fucked because if they buff regular tanks they need to buff corresponding premiums as well because WG have since long gone left the concept that premiums should be worse performing. Nobody will buy a premium tank that is as good as a tech tree one, they will only buy one that is overpowered because they are spoiled.

        Just buffing tanks all the time doesn’t work. If you change the stats too much then you need new mechanics that will suit these new stats as well as new maps. Current HD maps with retarded hull down and camping positions paired with heavilly armored tanks with great mobility and firepower is worse than aids. Majority of maps are retarded with too powerfull positions and only viable to a handfull of tanks anyways. And add on top of that premium ammo and premium consumables and equipment. The gap is so fucking huge it is not fun anymore.

        WG don’t have any vision anymore in terms of tanks balance and alot of that is thanks to the community where all players just want the best tanks possible. In the mind of WG it is perfectly fine to have a t54 mod 1 with stronger turret than a E75 and better side and frontal armor than a tiger II and vk45a. In my world that is stupid as fuck. MTs specially on tier 8 should have no viable armor towards same tier tanks, they should have the characteristics of the t-34-2, old t44, panther II and pershing etc. i.e. support vehicles. Now you have fucking MTs that can go head to head with same tier HTs and win, due to gun handling, DPM, turret armor and gold ammo and other unbalanced crap.

        I would never go head to head with a is3 or kv4 in my t-34-2 because it has too bad DPM, armor and pen as well as alpha damage. And that is how it is suppose to be…”but but if I cent pen a HT frontely I nid 2 go cri in da corner”. Well dont play MTs if you don’t want to play support.

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        1. no…you misunderstood a bit..

          a lot of premium tanks are ALREADY OVERBUFFED and thats why normal tanks must be buffed too.
          PREMIUMS CANT BE NERFED so the only way for balance is to buff all others.
          TO NOT LEAVE P2W PREMIUMS CONCEPT ANYMORE HERE !

          yes, premiums MUST BE WORSE THAN STANDARD ONES ON PERFORMANCE because their ROLE S TO MAKE MONEY AND TO TRAIN CREWS ! NOTTO BE MAIN TANKS !

          so, once again…since PREMIUMS ARE ALREADY OVERBUFFED AND “CANT BE NERFED”, the only way for balance is to BUFF ALL STANDARD ONES to minimum same level.

          Like

    2. “I have played for 5 years with tier 8 MTs with no gold and I have faced majority of tier 9 and 10 tanks but I dont expect to pen them frontaly.”

      I have my doubts about you playing for 5 years since then you would remember that there were frontal weakspots even on Tier IX and Tier X tanks too which could be penetrated by Tier VIII medium tanks without using premium ammo.

      Like

      1. How did you pen a E75, ST1, E100 or is7 frontaly with 175mm pen and 181mm pen like the former T44 and pershing had?

        Also back in the days accuracy was worse. Yes maps allowed for more flanking but the overall concept of balance was much better, not only because tanks at least on tier 8 all had weakspots, but because most if not all tanks had toned down stats compared to now.

        As I said again, wot needs a global nerf to all stats not a global rebalance/buff. All premiums should get nerfed heavilly so the only benefit is crew training and increased xp/credits. I am sick and tired of seeing premium outperform tech tree tanks and on top of that get more xp and credits while doing it.

        Also the worst scum of the earth are all these superunicum streamers motivating why they “need” to use premium ammo. Just stfu alreaddy, yall streamers were spamming gold before the erra of HD models, OP premiums and HD maps. At least be honest with your stats boosting. Just look at older videos on youtube you can clearly see their abuse of gold ammo for the sake of getting more damage and higher wn8…”but but you dont becum unicem just by spamming gold”. No that is true but a retard in a OP tank spamming gold is more dangerous than a retard in a balanced tank shooting AP.

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        1. I once penned an E100 frontally with ap from a 17 ponder also also for E75 if you get close you can pen the cupola (provided you don’t hit it at a weird angle) same used to be true the ST1 I even remember penning ones drivers hatch with a stock IS-3s 122mm. While it was never practical or even a good idea to engage these vehicles frontally with a tier 8 med it was still at least possible (except for the IS-7 that thing never could be penned frontally by tier 8 med standard ammo).

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    3. the buffs to the indien are necessary, as it has the lowest winrate of all tier 8 mediums by a large margin.

      Like

  4. buffing CUPOLA of STB???….Thats questionable…
    again…WEAKPOINTS REMOVAL !! NOT THIS IS WHAT GAME NEEDS !!
    TANKS NEEDS PROPER WEAKPOINTS !

    mantlet buff is just fine, overall turret is just vine…BUT NOT CUPOLAS !

    Liked by 3 people

      1. well thats their problem and i have a message for them : _)_
        middle finger !

        thats EU so we dont care or like their stupid BIAS πŸ™‚

        Like

  5. anyway im VERY PLEASED to see that premium tanks are not going to be just better than standard ones
    HATS OFF HERE WG ! i mean STA2 and Mutz…just HATS OFF !

    also like for PTA changes

    Like

  6. velocity nerfs on regular and major increases on ‘gold’ really show you where wg is going with this, forcing you to shoot gold .. eg; spend more.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. I think you know the answer…..nothing! Only Russian (medium) light tanks are allowed to be playable and usable on nowadays city maps Is of balans comrade

      Like

  7. Well they are finally buffing the jap mediums but I’m not sure if the direction they are going is good for me. At least, my STA2 is getting some of the love he needs, but again, other tanks need it too. Let’s see how it goes.

    Like

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