Data: Tier 8 tech tree tank Performance

Introduction:

More statistical analysis based on data from VBaddict on Tier 8 tech tree tanks only (No prem tanks or special tanks  – I would only compare prem tanks to other prem tanks).

Do I think this list is 100% accurate to determine which tanks are good/bad? No, but it is a useful reference. No Italian or Polish tanks yet, sample sizes were too small and it’s mostly only the hardcore/very skilled players who have them, which skews the data.

Method/Results:

Using data from VBaddict (categories shown below in table) I evaluated the tanks on a percentile basis, for example SU-101 is the highest percentile in win rate, thus would receive 10 points for their win rate. Some other tanks may also receive 10 points for their win rate, it depends on how close their win rate is in the distribution of win rates relative to the SU-101s. Basically what this means is that the scores are all relative to each other, which in my opinion is the best way to compare them mathematically. Maximum possible score is 91.5.

However, in this data iteration I assigned “weighted” values to each category based on my own opinion/logic. Some people will go crazy about this but oh well. I didn’t use any unicum opinion this time because it’s difficult to get their opinions. I do feel Unicum opinion is a useful piece of information.

For example, Tracking assisted is not as valuable as % of shots blocked, at least in my opinion. Mobility is as valuable as blocking % and Win rate, DMG, etc while kills/spotting/XP are slightly less important. The weighting doesn’t really change much overall in the scores, the same tanks are still at the top with some very subtle changes.

WR is Win rate, XP is XP/game, DMG is dmg/game, SPOT ASST is spotting/game, TRA ASST is Tracking assisted/game, BLK % is % of shots blocked, KPG is kills per game, MOBPT is an averaged value that considers top speed, reverse speed, and power/weight (Yes I know terrain resistance is very important, but I have no way to import the data automatically/easily).

 

Conclusions/Discussion:

No real surprises here in general. Nothing stands out to me as totally wrong, nobody will argue Tiger II or Kv-4 are good tanks. Sniping TDs scores suffer in general for the most part because they’re sitting red line while their team dies and not doing anything, thus their win rate, xp, damage, spotting, etc will all suffer.

Su-101 at the top, not surprising considering it’s a mini 268V4.

Again the colors pretty much tell the story.

Enjoy.

Disclaimer: This may be the last data article I do, it takes a lot of work to do this (Several hours) and I have pretty much lost interest in WOT in general (I haven’t played in a month for many reasons).

We’ll see what happens. Thanks to those that helped out with this article.

 

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77 thoughts on “Data: Tier 8 tech tree tank Performance

    1. I for one don’t have much to criticize. Some surprises here and there, but by and large the results match my own experience. Thanks Motoko.

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      1. I assume you’re talking to me. Robopon, I knew i’d be criticized by lemmings, but that’s ok.

        I just won’t post any more articles going forward.

        Like

        1. I like how instead of having a conversation with people who’re saying that you’re wrong you ask them to “go make your own chart” and “get off my thread”. You can probably say something constructive here. Also yeah, “criticized by lemmings”, “I won’t post any more articles”, boo-fucking-hoo. Talk to damn people.

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          1. Some people here are incredibly stupid, most probably can’t even do basic algebra as evident by the comments, people say “No methodology” yet I clearly explained it.

            People will be critical no matter what I post, last time I did unicum opinion, people went crazy, this time I weighted values, people went crazy.

            Joke.

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            1. So you’re just dismissing some people here? Who is “incredibly stupid”? How did you measure that? Also when your methodology is “I took WR from VBaddict and then made some shit up” I don’t think you can say anything to people who didn’t like it. I’m sorry, but you look very rude in this situation.

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              1. OFF:
                This is same kind of toxicity I find every time in this game. People become evil as soon as they start playing.
                The other day one guy started spam me in the garage after I told him to stop pinging, as he was already dead. So he checked my stats, found out that I am a whatever in his judgement and started writing me things, so ugly things, that I think if he would do it in person, I would fuckin kick his ass.
                And to be entirely clear on this sometimes I do the same thing, as getting offended by the unbelievably bad understanding of tactics of this game and the general lack of grey brain cells of some players. I think on one hand yes, the guy can be slightly less rude, but read through the comments, you’ll get why some of us just don’t have the patience anymore.

                E.g. Tiger 2 is so bad? But I can play it good! Stupid idiot, Tiger 2 is not bad…

                What do you do with this comment? :D
                In a perfect world I would say: sir, I am not sharing your opinion, but thank you for posting. But after 8356467264th time fuck it, I am a noob (little more then 7k games), but I had never have any problem taking out that Tiger 2! :D But I have, had and will have issues taking out an Emil, when it is in hull-down position with my t8 tanks.

                Of course this is a personal opinion and I am a noob bitch, I don’t even exist, so who cares right? :) As far as WG can make this game an attractive and addictive piece of hell and people still buying prem tanks and ammo to have a little success and good feeling that without mastering skills you can kill other players, this game will last. Yay! :D

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                1. People are alway going to be toxic in multiplayer games, since it’s a competitive environment. And of course people will alway be dicks on the internet, nobody knows anybody here, you can talk your mind freely. And some people are just natural assholes, nothing new here. I’d advice you to not take anything on the internet personally, especially in-game messages and chat in WoT, you will enjoy your experience a lot more.

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                2. That has more to do with your personal play style. What the OP did was base off of statistical data, so it’s not really his personal opinion he’s putting out there.

                  So he may be able to play the tiger 2 better than the emil as well, doesn’t mean the server average player does.

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  1. I dunno about most scrubs [yeah I do, they just suck] But MY Tiger II is a damn good tank, I do quite well in the KV-4 as well. The problem is these two tanks take BRAIN CELLS to play properly unlike the vast majority of Russian idiot proof tanks. But I’d take any buff the Tiger II could get of course. Not that its likely ever to happen. Can it do things a ISM or IS-3 can do? No cuz its not Russian and the KV-4 is just a big thick skinned box tank. But whatchya gonna do. Russian Bias is Russian Bias. Don’t believe it? That’s fine, keep on bouncing broadside shots on Object 257s cuz reasons.

    Liked by 5 people

      1. I’m thinking the same about the Indien Panzer. I had a blast playing it while grinding the Leo 1. One of the highest winrate and WN8 tanks in my garage.

        I have to say that was during the 9.18 release. MM was much better back then, I remember seeing mostly T8 only games. Good times…

        Liked by 3 people

    1. It depends on who’s playing it. Red tomatoes shouldn’t play it as they of course underperforms in it. Such in your case I reckon.

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        1. Which tells a lot about the bobject line in general if you think about it. Even after the rework of that line and the meh/lackluster changes to the SU 101 it still outperforms every other Tier 8 (tech tree wise)

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          1. I have no idea how it can outperform other tier 8s. No turret, no gun depression, bad traverse, bad side armor, heavy tank DPM, less effective armor than tier 7. And yeah, against tier 10s you can’t do amything, really, since you can’t brawl with them and you can’t snipe either.

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    1. I can only second that. some older one (Panther 8,8, I am lookung at YOU!) will be totally bad, some others (Progetto, Cent 5/1, Somua SM, Lorraine and naturally Defender) will for sure play in the top region.

      Liked by 2 people

  2. Same nonsense as the T10 so called “performance analysis”. Saying that e.g. the Su101 has the same “mobility” as the Charioteer or a T-44 is just beyond retarded even if you completely ignore the turret/non-turret difference and terrain resistances. No idea how to even craft a formula to come up with such results, as pretty much all input parameters are obviously worse on the Su101.

    But of course no formulas are shown again.

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    1. You can ignore turrent / nonturrent difference, just look at the WR of the charioteer and of the Su-101, Su still has almost 3% WR difference.

      Why is that ? Answer is simple, it has armor that most T6 and T7 cannot pen, so it means that if you end up in Su-101 as a top tier, you will always do well, no matter your personal stats just because this tank has idiot-proof armor, which is something that Charioteer does not have.

      Sure, if you are unicum player, you will probably perform better in Charioteer, just because of more reliable gun and it has turret. But remember, there is only 1% of unicum players in this game and as this is performance analysis it is mostly based on players with average 1000 WN8, so yeah, player with 1000 WN8 will definitely perform better in Su than in Charioteer.

      Liked by 2 people

    2. Not sure how you don’t understand this, Go compare Charioteer vs SU-101 mobility on tanks.gg, they’re nearly identical. I already said I can’t consider terrain resistances. Want to manually type in every terrain resistance value for me? Then I can consider it.

      Here’s one iteration of the only formula that matters: =RANK.EQ(X3,$X$3:$X$87,1)/COUNT($X$3:$X$87)

      What this does is equate the raw data (IE KPG) to a percentile relative to every other tank’s KPG. This formula is how the tank is evaluated in every category.

      This isn’t brain surgery. You want me to post an entire spreadsheet showing EVERY formula? Lol

      When I go to a work meeting showing my data, does my boss ask to see my formulas? No, because he wouldn’t understand it anyway unless he spent hours talking to me about it.

      Occassionally if another engineer will ask a specific question about the data, and I’ll show them. This is a blog where I’m presenting something with tons of math going on in the background, I’m not going to post a bunch of formulas so people can be confused.

      If you don’t trust what I’ve done, don’t read it, plain and simple. But to criticize my work because you don’t understand it or agree with it is ridiculous.

      What are your credentials? Do you have a math background? Highest level of education completed?

      I’m guessing none.

      Get off my thread.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. “Go compare Charioteer vs SU-101 mobility on tanks.gg, they’re nearly identical.”

        No offense, but I’m looking at those stats now and no, they are not ‘nearly identical’. The top speeds are kinda close, but Charioteer has a stronger engine and better terrain stats plus better base tank traverse, and those things kinda multiply with each other. Even with the mess that is mobility (WG won’t disclose the exact formulas and also listed traverse is for the tank’s stock engine, not upgraded) Charioteer should have a noticable better acceleration and considerably higher traverse on all terrain.

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        1. I already said I can’t consider terrain resistances, TWICE.

          The top speed is 2 km difference and reverse speed is 2 km difference, so those basically cancel out.

          I am not measuring tank traverse and I already disclosed that the mobility is determined by top/reverse speeds and power/weight. I can’t consider everything else because I don’t have an automated way to import the data.

          And again, PERCENTAGE wise they’re damn near equal. It’s a 5% difference in power/weight in terms of relativity. I use a formula to ROUND to nearest integers to make the data cleaner, I just removed the rounding and instead of both getting 8 points (SU-101 and Charioteer) – Charioteer gets 8.25 points for power/weight while SU 101 get’s 7.75. Maybe in the future I won’t round these values.

          Are you happy now?

          Does this really make a difference? No, but I decided to entertain your comment.

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          1. And my point is that due to you not counting a lot of factors, your mobility stat is basically worthless. You can’t draw conclusions from half the data.

            If we go by just P/W, then Charioteer has about 20% more (21.47 against 17.64) – where did you get 5% from? – and then the terrain stats put a multiplicative modifier of about 10-20% on that.

            Also, every person who has ever played tanks like Super Pershing or Sentinel knows that top speed means jack shit if you can’t reach it. Even without extreme cases, not all tanks reach their top speed.

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            1. Percentile based, meaning relative to the rest of the population of tanks.

              Also if you think you can manipulate data and do a better job, by all means, go ahead.

              In fact you seem so interested, why don’t you just go ahead and create a table for me for all tier tanks.

              Include their name, top speed, reverse speed, power/weight, all traverse speeds, all terrain resistances, and all camo values.

              What will you complain about then?

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                1. The only part of it that is MAYBE “objectively wrong” is that it doesn’t include EVERYTHING (Because I have no way to extract it), which likely won’t even make a considerable difference.

                  Like I said, instead of pointing out my “flaws” either go make your own table or give me the data you want to see and i’ll compile it.

                  If this is objectively wrong, what is WG? Entirely fundamentally wrong?

                  Like

        1. Because people offer criticism but won’t offer any way to help or any solution to the problem.

          All they do is point out problems but then if you ask them to help solve the problems, they won’t lift a finger.

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      2. “Go compare Charioteer vs SU-101 mobility on tanks.gg, they’re nearly identical.”

        They’re not. Not even close. “Mobility” includes a bit more than just max-speed and acceleration.

        “What this does is equate the raw data (IE KPG) to a percentile relative to every other tank’s KPG. This formula is how the tank is evaluated in every category.”

        The per-category ranking isn’t the issue. The merge of the different rankings is. Without listing a) why you choose the parameters you’ve chosen over others and b) how you combine them (“weighted by opinion” is a bad joke, esp. if no wheights are given).
        It’s just you toying around with spreadsheet software coming up with some arbitrary and fancy-looking results.

        “When I go to a work meeting showing my data, does my boss ask to see my formulas? No, because he wouldn’t understand it anyway unless he spent hours talking to me about it.”

        Sure, but then he probably gave you a specific task what data to present. Or do you tell your boss “hey, I have some data, I can’t tell you what it means but it looks fancy” Because that’s what you’re doing here. Putting some arbitrarily chosen numbers into a mixer and presenting the outcome.

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        1. A. The parameters are the only ones available on VBaddict.
          B. The weighted values barely make a difference, 10% at most. It’s not arbitrary at all, would you consider mobility more important than tracking assistance? I would too.
          C. My boss doesn’t give me specific tasks to do regarding data, I collect it on my own accord to reveal issues. Then we discuss it and we decide if we want to escalate the issue.
          D. I know exactly what my data means.

          I can remove the rounding and weighting in about 1 minute, it barely makes a difference. The same tanks are still at the top.

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  3. I don’t get the whole idea for this sheet. You basicly make what wn8 guys did long before you, just slightly differently?

    “Su-101 at the top, not surprising considering it’s a mini 268V4.”
    Wut? How? 268v4 has armor, su101 has not.

    And T32 is almost the same as Amx 65t? Don’t make me laugh! Amx65t is one of the worst T8 heavy in the game.

    Like

      1. yep, it’s true, and that is why I don’t understand why so many players defend the T32 does not need a buff

        to put it simply every american gun from 90mm and higher was intentionally nerfed by WG, in reality they have a chance to improve the performance of those guns without needing to buff them to unhistorical values, it is also possible for the devs to balance those guns on different tiers basing it only on the type of round giving to each tier and/or variants or evolutions of the same guns, it’s just a case of them wanting to fix it
        I could go into detail but it will become a long comment

        Liked by 1 person

  4. Su-101 has no armor ? Ok take Cromwell and try to pen it. Good luck I guess. Sure it does not have any amor againts T9 or T10, but if you end up on top with Su-101 you will carry the game no matter how bad player you are. and this is what makes stats so strong for this tank.

    Please think about it, before you write something that does not make any sense.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. > if you end up on top with Su-101

      SU-101 is tier 8 tank, and we live under the oppression of 3-5-7 WG own brand of bullshit. I find SU-100M1 to be far more reliable a tier lower because it can get mid-top tier far more often than a tier 8 tank in its tier spread.

      Still surprised that SU-101 is at the top though, that thing has less armor than SU-100M1 a tier higher so it’s hardly a downtiered 268 v4.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. The Tiger II isn’t bad because of tomatoes. The Tiger II is bad because of low alpha and bad armor. It’s armor is not idiot proof and you don’t have the mobility to make up for it.

        And with low alpha you can’t trade and you have to expose yourself more often. Turret roof can be overmatched by Russian 122 mm guns, turret front can be penned by everything it meets and the strongest part of the armor (UFP) can be penned by regular ammo of same tier tanks nowadays.

        O, right. You are constantly fighting tier 10 with this POS. If they put it on tier 7 and reduce the dpm, it’s fine. It is THAT bad… XD

        Liked by 1 person

      2. Tiger 2 is basically worse than Lowe in every single aspect… what’s that tell you?

        And it has no turret armor. Lowe turret can stand up quite well even against tier 10s, especially at medium/long range.

        Like

      3. Well it has a very good gun and decent turret armor. But the fact it was the best heavy in WW2 was probably the reason for wargaming to make it the worst tank in WOT. Propaganda. But if your experienced player you can make decent damage to other players

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        1. Was it the best heavy tank of WW2? It was way to heavy, underpowered and a logistical nightmare. It worked on the steppes of Russia, but they were a disaster during the battle of the bulge.

          Yes, it had a good gun, it had great armor, it had well trained crews, but it takes more for a tank to make a difference in real life.

          But yeah, WoT is a game and the Tiger II sucks way to hard. They shoud drop it to tier 7. Give it it’s original gun (Tiger I’s topgun) and it will be fine.

          The way they dropped Tiger I to tier 6 worked out fine if you ask me. Give the Tiger II the same treatment.

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          1. Tiger 1 is still a tier 7, nobody dropped it to tier 6. And I don’t think you’re talking about premium variant since it won’t solve a problem.

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            1. I was talking about the premium versions, those are fine since the turretbuffs. Gun is a bit meh, it needs better pen. But the rest is fine.

              Like

  5. I know how you feel , i play only german tank in this game and i see many problems..but meh i still play them,sometimes i think to quit too because the game is unfair and people play almost always the unbalanced tank in game becuase are much easy and need less skill
    hope in future buff for all forgotten tanks who really need to be much comptitive

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  6. They are so focused on premiums that entire lines are way overdue for adjustment. Yet it never occurs to them that this is one reason they lose players. People did hard work to earn those tech tree tanks and WG wiped them out with Russian Overbuffs and premium pay to wins.

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  7. This seems to be a decent work for me. Don’t care about the idiots criticizing you just to criticize. Are you willing to share the spreadsheet? I am interested in the weightings you applied. :)

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    1. I may post the chart without any weighted values going forward, depends on how many more “idiots criticizing” I have to deal with.

      We’ll see. So far I’m annoyed with the level of idiocy in the comments.

      Like

  8. SU-101 top is a bit of surprise but, I admit, where its gun hits, no grass will grow…
    I was expecting Emil I to rank a bit better, such low Spot assist, I wonder what people use the third module position for.

    I would love to see the Tier 8 PREMIUMS in the lost also.

    Like

    1. 360 base view range on a tier 8 heavy is quite bad, and the aim time is trash so people probably using GLD sometimes is my guess. Plus it’s not really a front line brawler since the armor isn’t great.

      So yeah, poor spotting.

      Like

  9. The MOMENT there are ANY values based on someone`s personal opinion/logic, is the moment when things like this stop being statistical analysis and becomes: “This is good/bad because reasons”.

    No offense Motoko, but you really wasted your time here. Not to mention there is no way WG (and they are the only ones that matter about things like this) will ever even look at this.

    Like

    1. You think I don’t know this? Lol. I alaso said at the very top this table is a reference, it’s not the bible. I don’t know why people can’t understand that.

      I do this because it hones my data/excel skills. I probably won’t do it anymore.

      Also I can remove all my “weighted values” or my “opinion/logic” in about 20 seconds and weigh everything equally and re-post the table.

      Sooooooooooo……..

      Like

  10. Well done, to say the least.
    Interesting chart, and frankly, I think it actually represents the current balance of WoT normal tech tree tanks.
    I’d like to see the premium tanks “balance” at tier 8 too… With the same criteria, if possible. And then maybe just comparing where the tank would be in this table. Of course, I understand there’s a difference, but like I said, if you could compare premiums using same criteria as in this then it would be nice.

    Like

  11. Motoko character not only is an awfully hostile fuckface, he’s also an infantile moron. As I said, sorry to respond in kind. No hard feelings (by me, obviously you don’t feel the same way fuckface).

    Like

  12. Also, thanks for editing my comment to something so innocuous as “I’m an idiot” instead of some other bs like pedophilic crap. Not saying you’d stoop down to that level but you never know these days.

    Like

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