Soviet TD Branch Rework Proposal

Made by DeadArashi, our dear TAP reader.

So as people are probably aware by now WG are planning on changing and, rather frankly, screwed up the Obj 263 line. Personally I’m against the change as it removes a rather unique TD from tier 10. So I’ve been digging around trying to find anything and everything I can to put onto the line and I think I have the perfect solution now.

Obj 263 line

The “Obj 261” being at tier 8 will confuse people so I’ll do a quick history lesson on the 261 to clarify a mixup by WG (this info is also readily available on the Wiki)

The Obj 261 consisting of 3 designs on the Obj 260 (IS-7) chassis. These are:

  • Obj 261-1: an enclosed forward fighting compartment. It was to be armed with a 152mm M-31 with a muzzle velocity of 880m/s. It was later re-designated Obj 261.
  • Obj 261-2: a semi-enclosed rear fighting compartment. It was to be armed with a 152mm M48 with a muzzle velocity of 1,000m/s. It was later re-designated Obj 262.
  • Obj 261-3: a semi-enclosed rear fighting compartment. It was to be armed with a 180mm MU-1 with a muzzle velocity of 920m/s

And that’s the story behind the Obj 261 and also answers what the Obj 262 is. In short they will be visually similar to and play like the current tier 10 Obj 263. There really isn’t a whole lot of information on them other then a rough estimation on possible armor thickness of 150-215mm of frontal armor.

Impression of the Obj 261-1

While the Obj 261-1’s fighting compartment might be forward, it would still embody the same armored sniper with DPM that the other tanks would have. The reason for this over the SU-122-54 is because of armor.

I would use the 130mm S-70 on the Obj 262 to build up into the Obj 263. It’s unhistorical but the S-70 was built into the S-70A so it’s a logical progression choice.

This will also require the current Obj 261 artillery to be renamed either to Obj 261-3 or Obj 264.

You can read an article by me covering the Obj 261 series and 263: http://forum.worldof…iet-heavy-spgs/

Obj 268 Version 2 & 4

Now, the Obj 268 Versions, as you can see we have the Version 2 and 4 as tier 9 and 10 and there’s a plethora of historical information from armor, to engines and guns.

Obj 268 Version 2

Hull length: 6,675mm

Crew Size: 4

Casement front: 180mm

Casement bevels: 150mm @ 45deg = 212mm effective

Sides: 90mm

UFP: 75mm @ 75deg = 290mm effective

Mid Frontal Plate = 180mm @ 30 deg = 208mm effective

LFP: ? @65 deg = ?

Weight: 50t or less

Object 268 Version 4

Hull Length: 6,900mm

Crew Size: 5

Casement front: 180mm

Casement Bevels: 160mm @ 70deg = 468mm effective from the front, or @ 20deg = 170mm effective from the side

Sides: 90mm

UFP: 75mm @ 75deg = 290mm effective

Mid Frontal Plate = 180mm @ 30 deg = 208mm effective

LFP: 160mm @ 65deg = 378mm effective 
Weight: 50t or less

Historically the engine should be the V-12-6, a 750 hp engine that would later be fitted in the T-10M. Because of this I’m going to propose the 12-5 and 12-6 to be used on the Obj 268 Ver 2 and the V-12-7 (1,000hp) to be used on the Obj 268 Ver 4.

With the 1,000hp engine and a weight of 50t or less gives it a minimum power to weight of 20hp/t. Basically what WG are giving it now. They can thicken the armor but I would put it at 200-220mm at most for the Obj 268 Ver 4. For the Obj 268 Ver 2 I would leave the armor historical.

Modules

Tier 8: Obj 261

Guns: The guns I’ve suggested above are unhistorical with the exception of the 152mm M31. The M31 was designed to have the same ballistic properties as the 152mm Br-2 (in-game on the tier 7, 8 and 9 USSR arty) giving it a muzzle velocity of only 500 m/s in-game.

Radio: This one is an unknown so I’m just giving it the basic ones from the existing tanks
Engine: The B-16 was an engine originally planned for the Obj 260 (IS-7) that was to produce 1,200hp. Development failed so this gives WG some room to fudge some stats here.

Tier 8: Obj 268 Ver 2

Guns: The 152mm M48 was designed similarly to the M31, however it far exceeded it with a muzzle velocity of 1,000 m/s. 

Engine: Being based on the Obj 270 (T-10) chassis it was to get the same engine, this would be either the V-12-5 (700hp) or V-12-6 (750hp)

Tier 9: Obj 262

Guns: Once again, the guns are unhistorical except for the 152mm M48. The 130mm S-70 however builds into the 130mm S-70A historically so it’s a logical choice and keeps the line in-check.
Radio: As above
Engine: The TD-30 was again an engine planned for the Obj 260. It was a modified ACh-30 aircraft engine.

Tier 9: Obj 268 Ver 4

Gun: The stock gun would be  152mm M53, or possibly even the M48. The top gun, the 152mm M53C (as known by WG), was an unnamed project for a self-propelled gun on the basis of the M53 and mixed parts of the 122mm M-62. Its muzzle velocity was estimated to be 760m/s. The gun length, from center of the casement to tip of the muzzle brake, was 5,425mm.

Radio: Using the Obj 268 radio here.

Engine: While not historically planned for this vehicle, it would be a fitting addition to the top tank. The V-12-7 produced 1,000hp.

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60 thoughts on “Soviet TD Branch Rework Proposal

  1. There should be a new tier ten after object 268 v4 i actually think it would be better to bump up that line to tier 10 with su100 m1 (why does everyone keep saying su101m1 it is su100m1) back at tier 6 and a new line from su100m1 which is su12244 as tier 8 then su12254 as tier 9 then IT 130 as tier ten (a project to mount 130 mm gun on su 122 54) and FIRST (i had to)

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  2. Looks good, but I would bump the SU-101, 268 V2 and 268 V4 tiers higher and keep the SU-100M1 at tier 7.

    Those two should be workable with acceptable enough buffs, and that way you would have 3 full Soviet TD branches :P

    Liked by 2 people

    1. That’s exactly what I was thinking:
      tier 7 : SU152 / SU100M1
      tier 8 : ISU152 / SU101 / Obj261-1
      tier 9 : Obj704 / Obj268v2 / Obj261-2
      tier X : Obj268 / Obj 268v4 / Obj263
      Like that you get 3 TD lines with each its taste: classical / rear turret / open turret … awaiting the WT-like line and you have potentially the heavy-like line with 268v3 / 268v5.

      Liked by 2 people

    2. I was originally going to do this, but I came to the conclusion that it wouldn’t offer anything more over what we already have.

      Instead you could put the Obj 268 Ver 3 and the Obj 705A after the Obj 268 Ver 2. Then you would have a line ending with two turreted TDs which would offer something different.

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        1. I can’t seem to find anything regarding the IT-130 other then it was a fake tank done by an author called Steve Zaloga who has since clarifiesdthat the IT-130 were fabrications by a Soviet defector named Viktor Suvorov.

          The IT-130 was heavily based on the Obj 704

          Not to mention it’s also a little hard since the SU-122-44 is already a premium tank

          Ignoring that fact you could put the Obj 268 Ver 4 where the Obj 705 is then go SU-122-44 -> SU-122-54 -> Obj 704

          While not a bad idea, the fact of the 122-44 being a premium means it will probably never happen

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          1. It is a good idea but the object 704 wouldnt fit the gameplay well the su 12254 is supposed to be fast not take to many hits while still being able to bounce a few while the 704 is supposed to be a slower more heavily armoured tank the only thing they have in common is their big gun and sloped armour plus the 122 54 should have higher alpha damage and a faster reload time similar to the 122 44 so the gameplay would be consistant and even though the IT 130 was still kind of not real it could still fit

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              1. I would like WG to do this with the T34 american tank. Bring it back to its original tier 9 HT with the T30 after it. Drop the T32 to tier 7 and buff the T29 to tier 8. As a fan of my other proposals I’m sure you’ve seen my proposal for the US tech tree.

                But moving back to the Soviets. You make some good points regarding the 704. I’m sure if I spent more time I could find a historical design that could fit tier 10. There’s a lot that hasn’t been translated from Russian so information is small doing just English searches. Took me a while to gather all of the info for my post about the Obj 260 based SPGs

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                1. I could work on it as well i am trying to learn russian so we can tryto find one even though i have not posted it i have found enough tank to make the soviet tech tree grow to around 30 tier 10 tanks and even more lower tier tanks even though i cannot post in the forum i could help you reaserch if you could make a new proposal topic in the forum and we could work to gether to make new proposal tech trees woth many many tanks

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                2. @DeadArashi : Concerning the T34, there is not the material to put it as regular tank. There is not secondary turret, no secondary gun, no secondary engine.

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                    1. I know, but the way it was done is not satisfying … I’ve read the book Hunnicutt: Firepower – An History of American Heavy Tanks. For example the T32 gets a 105mm just to fit as tier 8, gets a fictional first turret … I think the best would be to invert the T32 and T29 to get more historical configurations.

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    1. Only if it wasn’t a clanwars tank

      There’s 4 tanks that could fit as turreted TDs: Obj 268 Ver 3, Obj 268 Ver 5, Obj 705 and Obj 705A

      Admittedly the 705’s are classed as HT’s historically but that never stopped WG from using a HT as a TD

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        1. wait, it isn’t? Didn’t it get announced nearly 2 years ago? Wow

          If it’s not then by all means, a turreted TD line would be far more unique to add then the Obj 268 Ver 4 as a tier 10

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          1. No its not. You probably got confused with the fact that every CW reward gets sold on Chinese server for money. However, not only CW rewards get sold, but *everything* that has hit in-game files on the main game. This includes the Chieftain Mk 6, you can buy one on Chinese server!

            No one really knows what happens to the 268 V5. WG said that they will use some of the lonely, unused supertest tanks as tech tree tanks (like the Object 257 and T71 CMCD). Maybe they have plans for 3rd Russian TD line? Who knows.

            Liked by 1 person

  3. Or….. leave the 263 line as-is and make the 268v4 into a future clan wars / personal mission reward or something. The only thing wrong with this line is that its relatively unpopular, and that could be so much more easily solved with a few basic buffs than any of these tech tree changes.

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    1. Yeah, I really haven’t figured out what wg is doing. The problem has never been the 263, it’s always just been a terrible line. I guess they figured that having a good tank in the line was too out of place, so why not just remove any need to grind/free xp that line?

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  4. IF the Obj. 268 Version 4 would become a Tier IX, it should only replace the SU-122-54 (Which could become a Tier VIII premium). IMO the line is fine as it is. Maybe the SU-101 could use some small buffs. But Tier IX is the only thing that doesn’t fit in there.

    After that, they should replace the Obj 430 with the Obj 120 (Yeah I know, TD, but T57 Heavy).

    Am I the only one who thinks that this would be the best thing to do?

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  5. I like the idea it’s well thought out. However you can still get three tier 10’s out of the current lines if you introduce the SU-100P and SU-152P to the them.

    I only say this because of how different the 261 and 262 is to 263 because of the structure setup and armament.(if we go unhistorical this isn’t a problem.) and that the 268 version 4 is good enough to be at tier 10.

    Have it like this. SU-101 and SU-152 are at tier 7. The SU-152 leads to the ISU-152 and the SU-101 leads to the SU-100P. similar armaments and rear fighting compartments

    At tier 8 we have the SU-100P and ISU-152. not much has changed still two tier 8’s. the ISU-152 will still lead to the Object 704, and the SU-100P will lead to the SU-152P.

    Now at tier 9 the Object 704 will lead to the Object 268 and version 4 form. and finally the SU-152P will lead to the Object 263 and maybe the Object 268 ver. 4 as well since they share the same gun. and we can keep the 261, 262 and 268 ver. 2 as reward/premium vehicles.

    But whatever I’m okay with this proposal, also I’m surprised you never had these two vehicles in consideration making this since they helped develop the Object 268 and are real vehicles.

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    1. SU-100P and SU-152G and 152P can be used as the start of a turreted TD line, tier 9 can be the Obj 268 Ver 3 and the tier 10 the Obj 705A. I would rather the Obj 268 Ver 5 at tier 10 but that’s been used as a reward tank already.

      I actually originally had the Obj 268 Ver 2 at tier 9 and the Ver 4 at tier 10 but didn’t feel it offered anything new in terms of playstyle over the current 268 or 263, Russian turreted TDs on the other hand would

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      1. There’s a lot of potential for a Turreted line, I’m just saying to test the waters. Maybe build up to the turreted TD line when interest develops as players play these vehicles, Just like the unfinished French MT line and the firefly line on the UK tree which people have already found vehicles that can be used to finish these lines properly.

        Wargaming tends to leave these things open as a last ditch effort to keep the player base. that’s probably why they’re implementing these strange line changes nobody wanted. I wont be surprised that these vehicles are this year’s final update and are going to be pushed just like with the Swedish TDs

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  6. Dude that’s awesome job and it would be great, but i guess the main point of this line rework is it’s efficiency for the development team, they have to create one tank instead of 4 like in your proposal :(

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    1. Obj 262 would just be similar/same model as the Obj 261-3 arty
      Obj 268 Ver 2 would just require some edits to the casement of the Ver 4
      They already have made the Obj 268 Ver 4

      So really they only need to make the Obj 261 which wouldn’t take long since they already have the hull and most of the casement made

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