Official Sandbox #2 Info

After introducing a lot of massive changes all at once in the 1st iteration, we collected and analyzed your feedback. This time, we’re taking a more “compartmentalized” approach and continue fine-tuning features that showed good results during the previous test. We’ll cluster the changes into two phases, each with specific “packs” of changes for you to test:

  • Phase 1: Armor penetration and accuracy mechanics; normalizing damage values of overpowered and underpowered guns
  • Phase 2: All-round work on artillery

The first phase begins January 19.

Shot distribution within the aiming circle

The reworked system makes hitting weak spots at range more difficult for guns with bad dispersion (0.4 and up), while aim time, armor, and gun stabilization become more important.

With fewer shots clustered around the center of the aiming circle, the number of “unbelievable” shots (hitting weak spots without taking full aim, or on the move or at great distances) is reduced. This also increases the overall survivability of well-armored vehicles (and their ability to bounce rounds):

  • Faster-aiming vehicles with decent dispersion cement their role as effective long and mid-range warfare masters
  • For less accurate guns, or when firing with high dispersion, the chances of successfully “snap-shotting” a target at long range decreases

The aim of this change is to balance tanks with either high alpha or high DPM.

Today, tanks that rely on DPM (standing and shooting) have a disadvantage. They have to stay at the line of fire and expect to get shot at in return. But this isn’t as frequent with high alpha damage vehicles. They can get out of cover, quickly aim, fire, then return to cover relatively risk-free.

We’re trying to make these types of tanks equally viable—compared to now, where a battle with alpha strikers doesn’t feature much action, and a battle with DPM dealers is chaotic and mostly unpredictable.

It’s for you to tell us if we made the right call.

Revised alpha damage

Currently, vehicles with very high alpha damage (the JagdPz. E 100, FV 4005, or FV 215b (183)) foster artillery-like gameplay and outperform other vehicles in their tier, thanks to downright devastating alpha damage. It won’t make your winrate increase, even if you’re shooting Gold rounds, but it’s enough to obliterate the target and hurl an unsuspecting player back to their Garage. However, long reload times also leave these tanks defenseless for an uncomfortably long time if you miss.

At the same time, the T57 Heavy, T110E5, AMX 50 B, Kranvagn and others with a 120 mm gun deal 400 alpha damage. Just compare it to 440 of 122 mm guns: the 2 mm difference in caliber results in a 10% reduction in damage.

To better balance these two groups of vehicles, we are:

  • Reducing high-caliber gun damage per shot, while also improving their reloading time
  • Scaling 120 mm gun damage to the damage rating of 122 mm guns; the reload time on all affected tanks was increased to keep their DPM intact

These are two delicate issues, and the changes we are making are just one out of a few ways to set the things right without replacing tanks or totally rebuilding them. They look good on paper, now only you can help us check if they really work.

Penetration loss over distance

Penetration values of AP and APCR shells begin decreasing at 50 m (instead of 100 m), and they lose 18% and 23% of their initial values at 500 m.

Changes to the way these rounds lose their pen power at range can facilitate action-packed, close-range engagements and make armor thickness more relevant.

It will be difficult to soften up targets at range—you’ll no longer have the penetration needed to get the job done. This then forces you to get up close and trade punches. Solid armor paired with smart angling to increase your relative armor thickness, will leave you undamaged while your opponent smolders.

We tested similar mechanics during the first Sandbox iteration, but that was a much higher penetration loss over distance, as well as other changes that diluted the experience. Now we’re trying a more focused test with different values.

A lower penetration loss over distance means a less pronounced impact on the battlefield, but we think we found a good balance. The revised mechanic will encourage heavies to shorten the combat distance while still not allowing them to behave recklessly.

Yet with all our internal tests and models, we can’t reliably answer the most important question: “Is it fun for our audience?” Therefore, we’re asking you to help us.


75 thoughts on “Official Sandbox #2 Info

  1. Typical WG, doing changes nobody is asking for. Just fix the damn artillery and let the aim dispersion as it is.
    Why are they introducing new tanks with higher penetration than their older counterparts when they want to increase the role of armor?

    Liked by 6 people

    1. ^ this

      hold on..
      *grabs neon lights, bull horns, and fireworks*
      *sets them up around his post*

      maybe now WG will notice

      also i notice how none of these changes they do affect gold rounds.
      or maps

      but they do screw over 121 =/

      Liked by 4 people

      1. Heavy tanks have best winrate and are best at carrying games, apart from bad tanks like Type 5.

        Obviously depends on skill, but baddies do much better in heavies than mediums, best players do probably slightly better in mediums, because they can flex, plus they can completely shat on in slow heavies because XVM gut da.


  2. Oh boy oh boy, here it goes again. Second iteration of pure cancer. Yup, lower game skill cap even more so every tomato in Maus he failed to can stand in middle of the map and be completely fine.
    Accuracy nerf? Seriously? Fuck you.
    Sooo, t57 loses it’s DPM. Yeah. Any more questions?

    Liked by 5 people

    1. T57 HT will go from 1600dmg in 6s to 1760dmg in 6s. The tank is already overpowered but now it can kill ennemies even more easily. People call arty OP but an autoloader oneclipping you within 6s (aka before you even get the chance to start reversing) is okay, and people will even complain about it being bad when it gets a buff…

      Liked by 3 people

      1. Maybe, you know, actually try playing the autoloaders to see how OP they are… T57 is bad carry tank, not really fast, armor can be trollish but nothing reliable, can’t clip anything apart from T8’s, gun handles horribly. One of the worst T10 heavies when it comes to winrate/carrying battles.

        Liked by 1 person

        1. Yup, my bad, didn’t read carefully, it doesn’t lose dpm
          + up is right, try to play t57 and then say once again it’s OP. It’s e100 levels of slow, no armor except if your enemy is really trolled by rng and arty shits all over you. Literally only thing it has going for it is DPM – hope that you’ll be fully loaded when they come for you.
          +if it takes you 6 seconds to start backing off you are probably doing something wrong lol. It is actually really easy to either run away from t57 or just make it bounce at least half a clip. Even wargaming admitted that t57 is now the weakest of all of them (50b and krankenwagen) lol


  3. When will they realize gold ammo is killing the game and always had. When gold ammo has higher pen than regular ammo in all cases, of course people will use that to ompensate for accuracy (dont nid to hit weakspots so much) and pen drop. Why cant WG be honest and answer that question instead of inventing issues that needs to be “fixed”. As long as they mess with accuracy and pen people will just shoot more gold to “compensate”. Dont they see that tanks with low AP pen are gold spammers, as well as tenks with bad accuracy? Also the pen drop at 500 at tier 10, will still make tenks get penned on the side when moving from point 1 to 2, so that is more of an issue with map balance. This will only hurt lower tiers playing with no gold ammo, all other gold spammers wont get affected because they still have their sub 240-250mm apcr/heat at 500 meters anyways. For this to be affective they need to cap the pen and accuracy at 300 meters range no matter pen or ammo, to really encourage people flanking. Looking at the sandbox streams there is as much camping/sniping as on live server and that will never change.

    There is no hope for this game as long as they dont remove/rebalance gold ammo and give the tanks real standard ammo pen and individual accuracy depending on tank, class, and tier etc. The chance of hitting center and close to center in aim circle is påracticaly the same no matter accuracy, so how the fuck will this change make accurate guns accurate and unacurate guns uinaccurate? More RNG, cum fucking on WG-bots. What fucking degenerate moron is in chagre of balancing process? Drag im out and sent to camp directly!

    Liked by 2 people

    1. lol gold spammers are ruining the game? really thats your excuse for being bad huh you need to learn to hit weakspots an know when to fire ap an when not too ive played 54 games today an only had to fire 12 prem rounds in all 54 games… thats in tanks like the super p an comet with shit AP you just need to know were to aim an when to even fire an im a F2P player ive only bought 1 prem tank thats my super p an never had prem time yet i have 5 tier 10s.

      Time to git gud bro using MM this MM that prem ammo spammer this bullshit excuse as to playing bad learn the maps learn the bush spots learn weakspots learn when an when not to fire.

      Liked by 1 person

        1. Not really. You say that you cannot do anythink becouse gold spammers. If you play normally you can probably fire back with no problem. I think you one of the E-100 players who angle the armour and can’t shoot back becouse too busy with armour angling. If you not rely on armour that much and try to shoot things instead of trying to bounce shells you will be able to do somethink. And if somebody can’t pen you with normal ammo he will load Gold or not try to penetrate you(if he’s not autist)


      1. @blackdeath Same old bullshit :) You are just an idiot. WG should do what they did in WoWp. Make premium ammo to cost gold again. And that is it. The retarded changes they implement regarding accuracy and all that shit could be solved with it. But whatever… WG has absolutely NO IDEA ABOUT GAME BALANCE. E-sport my ass…


  4. I’m liking it for now. Sounds good for the pen loss and raw pen part, but the scatter part is ridiculous, we’re going back to pre 8.6 RNG here…

    But JPZ will be worth nothing now. It is the only tier X tank that made me rage so much I had to sell it. It doesnt hit a lot, it always rolls low, or has some troll “no damage” hits, then it reloads for 21s. So if they reduce its alpha even mote then there is no point in going for the slow rng long-reload TD when you can have a TD a tier lower with tier X hp, better dpm, better accuracy and which doesnt feel as bad.

    Also they planned to make the JPZ pen less than 260 so lol nope get out.

    Anything that increases rng is bad for this game. Accuracy is already rather meaningless. A tank like KV-2 can snipe at extreme range but tanks like Grille15 can miss a target 100m away id RNG wants so. Increase it even more you right make every class arty-level of frustration to play.

    And I hope gold ammo will be significantly nerfed to make up for these changes because you can bet that the second accuracy and/or pen is nerfed everyone will fire gold even more than they already are…


  5. They might aswell start WOT from scratch and start again from there. Could be a shame that Rubicon was called off. I only have issues with maps/corridors, arty and mm. In all they should rebalance it, not change it where only 1 or 2 classes will benefit.

    Liked by 1 person

  6. Wg need to remove alot of tanks so the game becomes like in the old days. HTs were tough and MTs needed to flank amd there were real weakspots on all tanks. Too many tenks have entered the game which fucked up the balance. Even tier 8 which was good is fucked up thanks to buffed strong tanks and OP prems. This issue wouldnt exist if WG wouldnt have brought in more and more powercreep tenks. Balance is way off. E5 on sandbox god alpha increase and no reduced DPM. It needs lower dpm due to the higher alpha.


  7. I see a pattern here, WoWs just became World of Battleships with the latest update *cough* Fire Preventation *cough* Radio Position *cough* and now these dipshits are changing WoT to World of Heavy Tanks with all this stupid bullshit direct and indirect buffs to them.

    Imagine a platoon of 3 sub 500 wn8er in their Type 5 heavies rolling down the middle of Malinovka, not even tier 10s are going to be able to pen those fuckers, let alone tier 9s and 8s…

    M48 Patton with a fucking pen of 208? Give me a fucking break, good gun is the only thing that tank has going for it, take it away and you got a fat useless turd.

    Jesus WG, what the actual fuck is wrong with you? Just remove the goddamn arty and be done with it you window licking mouth breathing retarded twats.

    Liked by 3 people

    1. Still tier 10 MTs has enough gold pen. Also slow tenks will never be strong, they have too bad mobility and gun handling to be competitive.


    2. Go back and read the notes, the M48 and all of the other NATO 105’s have ~210 pen with APCR at 500m. So if you are complaining about not having the max pen, and max render, I am sorry you are just not being constructive at all. With the new dispersion values they are instituting, the pen won’t make a difference if you can’t hit the target. The purpose of this is to eliminate the Red Line camping douches that just abuse the corridor style maps, and complain once the rest of their team has died. You will have to flank more in the mediums, rather than using them as long range snipers.


      1. Please point out on which maps you can actually be a long range sniping douche an win games? Making tanks impenetrable won’t make them play more aggressive, it will make it harder to punish them if they camp. Meds and heavies were for the most part fine, I don’t see why WG feels such a need to drastically change them.

        Liked by 1 person

        1. Actually, MTs are NOT fine. A few days ago, a T-62 wanted to trade shots with my Grille 15 from 300+ meters away. He lost, hence Grille OP, nerf!!!!!


      2. Listen to you, red line camping in the corridor meta? Is that even possible these days? Flank more with meds? Are you for real?

        Yeah try to “flank” heavies in Himmesdorf\Ensk\Pilsen\Ruinburg\etc.

        Lemme fix that for ya:
        “The purpose of this is to empower 3xR brainless point blank brawler douches that just abuse the corridor style maps, and complain once the rest of their team has died.”

        Liked by 2 people

    3. Damn, you’ll just press 2 like every med driver already does.

      And have no trouble at all with your 330 HEAT pen that doesn’t drop off at all.



  8. Quote: “The reworked system makes hitting weak spots at range more difficult for guns with bad dispersion (0.4 and up), while aim time, armor, and gun stabilization become more important.”

    So Wargamings devs address this how? By GLOBALLY adjusting the dispersion sigma down…good riddance, this will effect every tank in game. Every accurate gun will become even less accurate and will have the same % of shots falling to the center as those 0.4 guns.
    That is what you get when in it’s base a program can only use ONE variable…so change it!

    Wargaming, you should have changed the core code of your game, so that it can handle x nr of dispersion sigma values.
    If that would mean rewriting parts of the base code so be it, as that would be an actual AGAIN to your product making it more future proof.

    This current ‘solution’ addresses the symptoms ONLY, not the CAUSE.

    As for the pen drop off. Imagine some similar toned feedback.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Another solution would be to keep retarded dispersion all over the circle but make the accuracy of guns much much better, like 0.15-0.20, maybe better maybe worse depending on what it looks like. Now you point your reticle at weakspot, and that weakspot covers maybe 25% of the reticle, one clip (to make it more rage inducing) you hit 4/5 next clip you hit 1/5.
      With the stupid dispersion weakspot would cover 66-75% or the reticle and chance of hitting it would be similar.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Yeah that would be a logical solution if they intend to keep the dispersion…but we all know Wargaming logical approaches to things… xD


      2. Or something I came up with before: “make the dispersion a function of the size of the aim circle”.

        Thus impacting snapshots only (esp with bad acc gun) while fully aimed shots remain the same as they are now.

        Watching QB’s sandbox stream and this might be what they have implemented now.


    1. “No no no no no, we can’t have that, we can’t cut our profits in half like that. To fix the armor problem, we are going to nerf standard shells even more instead, to the level that no one would ever use them again.”

      Liked by 1 person

  9. From a PR perspective, they should have kept those two dispersion circles the same size. Making them different makes the change look bigger than it is.


  10. i’m fine with this aiming change because it feels just like in 9.17 but less random…
    i don’t know about distance dropps because you would have to cmpare that side by side


  11. Biggest issue on sandbox is no nerf/removal of gold ammo which neglects the focus on armor. Also they gave the e5 higher alpha and it certanly doesnt need that neither does T57. Make broken tenks even more broken.


    1. More alpha but worse reload. Thats a buff for moments where you cant fire consinuously, but a nerf for 1v1 fights because tanks with faster reload will probably have the advantage, especialy with the new accuracy and pen where bounces will be more common.


  12. If the e5 should have 440 alpha, it needs signifcantly worse mobility and gun handling. What is the point of any other HT at tier 10, if e5 has armor, mobility, gun handling, accuracy, pen AND now alpha? Silly balance.

    Liked by 1 person

  13. Wargaming please… don’t just nerf gold prem rounds, these accuracy nerfs make mid and low tier tanks unenjoyable, I was playing the t-34-85 and a enemy tank was standing still on top of a hill and my gun kept shooting the ground and only hit the target once and you want to make that worse?

    keep in mind of new players who have 50%-75% crew who might be using a gun with more than 0.42 accuracy


    1. I get your point, but you don’t have to exagerate to make it stand.
      New players these days get 100% crews on T1, an you never have to use 50% crews when 20000 credit option is available (and they don’t lack credits on low tiers).


  14. glad I dont play PC WoT, these changes sound fucking horrible
    make everyone miss constantly, remove all penetration…what the heck is the point to try and shoot people then?
    is this World of Passive Spotting now ?!?!


  15. till WG realise the main problem is premium ammo, they will only break the game more chasing there tails with their heads in the sand.
    sort the dam gold ammo spam and you will find sorting your other problems will be easier as they will be a lot less problems
    Dispersion nerf will hurt guns with on paper good accuracy but soft and hidden stats that make them preform very badly already, one or 2 Brit guns and a French gun spring to mind, and the pen nerf will make the German short 10.5cm even worse than it is already, glad I don’t have to use it any more.


  16. The game just has a few problems. We don’t need no sandbox for that.

    1. Fix arty. No more oneshots, no pen, only pen and a flatter trajectory.

    2. Fix prem ammo. Not more than ~15% more pen than standard rounds. Just like the German 88 (203/237)

    3. +/-1 mm. No need to explain.

    4. More open maps like Steppes, Sand River, etc. Rework corridors and maken MORE maps.

    5. Balance the obvious OP and UP tanks and make every line playable, no bad tanks at any tier. There are only few painless grinds, I don’t want to play UK heavies, because the tier 6, 7, and 8 are really bad.

    Everybody knows this. Why doesn’t WG do something about it? It really isn’t that hard.

    Liked by 3 people

  17. What kind of crayons they took this time ???!!! Jesus Christ theyre dumb as bricks !!!! Buff E5 , buff autoloader heavys , buff turds loving to drive theyr heavys in the open, nerf accuracy… They went full captain crayon this time ….


  18. By the way circle area works a 170mm shell should have arround 2x the damage of a 120mm shell. so if they want to be absolutely correct it should be even lower.

    WARNING, Math: Area of circle/bullethole = Pi*r². r=d/2 d:120mm = 60r Pi*60²=11309mm² for 120mm and Pi*85²=22698mm² for 170mm
    If new 120mm standard will be 440, then 170mm’s would get 883, 150mm= 687.5 damage, 105mm = 336.875, 90mm = 247.5, 75mm = 172.875, 20mm = 12.222 etc. etc.

    Making the guns deal damage according to how big the shell is instead of sorta making the numbers up like WG has done before would make the game more realistic. Don’t get me wrong, it’s already lining up pretty well for some of the calibres so, now it would just be aligning those who are way off, like 75mm. Then compensate the damage nerfs/buffs with increased or decreased firerate.
    For me this would be a very welcome change. I always wondered why a 105mm would have only 10 less damage than a 120mm when the bullethole would be 30% smaller.


    1. Damage done in real life does not depend on shell diameter as much as it depends on velocity and MASS. A 170mm shell weighs more than twice as much as a 120mm shell.


      1. Well yea, but that also affects penetration of a shell, irl penetration is sorta tied to damage, but in WoT penetration and damage are separate things.

        You could probably make a complex algorithm for accurately calculating penetration and “damage” based on shell weight, shell width, shell velocity, bullet penetrator material and so on.

        Though that would be very hard since that would mean that you would need real stats from the real guns. Since some of the guns are fake and so on it just won’t happen. If you are gonna make those stats up from assumptions then you might aswell just not do the algorithm in the first place I feel.

        But above mentioned I feel is a good beginning if they want the game to be more realistic.


  19. ” FV 4005″… “outperform other vehicles in their tier”

    Nice one wg, although April 1st isnt here yet.


    from 1,750 to 1,450 hesh damage with 3 seconds of reload reduction.
    I’m too lazy to do the math, but I’m pretty sure the dpm has shrank, and by quite a bit.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. When you have a tank that is able to do almost 2.2k dmg (so able to oneshot many tier Xs already) every 25s with 230mm pen (enough to pen the front of anything but tier IX or X heavies) ; it could be immobile and have 1mm of armor it would still be OP.
      At least arties:
      -have low accuracy
      -have much longer reloads
      -have less than half the pen
      -have 3 times less health
      This thing can just get out of a corner and blast a full life T-62A out of the game without even needing to aim that much.

      This thing needs a huge damage nerf and a huge pen nerf. If it has arty caliber and damage it may as well get arty chances of doing full damages. Same goes for FV183.

      Even JPZ is more balanced. It hurts but it wont even oneshot a tier 8 Light Tank most of the time and has almost the same reload as FVs…


    2. If they kept the “AP dpm” the same, the base reload would be 27.39s

      If they kept the “HESH dpm” the same, the base reload would be 24.86

      Instead we get 28s base for both ammo types -_-

      “Sold: FV215b 183”


  20. Heavy Tanks are already the dominant force on WOT. Generally the team with the best top tier Heavies wins the pubs, and Clanb wars are all fought by heavies too.

    So these changes have no effect an, say, the already dominant IS3, but make it more powerful compared to the hapless Meduims and TD’s

    Hmmm. I think Heavy tanking requires the least skill and generally the stupidest players play Heavy tanks. It seems the WG developers obviously prefer Heavy Tanks, so the developers are probably stupid as well. The tactical awareness and reflexes required to play meds and lights is all too much for them, lets just make the heavies more powerful

    Well, if these changes go through, I will just have to put away all my meds, lights and TD’s, and just play Heavies, because if I cant carry, then I wont play the tank.

    The idea of premuim ammo for gold sounds good though. I spend $100 – $150 a month on WOT, so I can afford it, and will continue to spam premium, and will be a prince among poor people, as I will have the 20% advantage of being a premium shooter. :)

    If they get rid of premium ammo, then I will instead spend my money of free experiencing my way up to the biggest baddest carry tanks available

    I think these changes are thought up by people that just play Tier 10 Heavy Tanks all day, and have no idea of the larger community that are non heavy tank players that play lower tiers.

    If these changes go through, the game will be quite horrible, skill or map awareness will be irrelevant, and degenerate to Heavy tank brawls fests, but the smart player will adapt and play the dominant tank of it time (Get the biggest baddest heavies).


    1. We’ll see how the community reacts. I stopper playing last week, because of continuesly bad rng and matchmaking. Sessions with 35% winrate, without anything you can do about it. Missing shells with an e50m over 80m and stuff like that. If that happens more often to me and other players, people will automatically stop playing.


  21. some posters said something about nerf of prem-ammo. I think they got it completly wrong. the only nerf to prem is for APCR, which now drops more in pen over distance than AP. still you will have more pen with all prem-rounds at 565 m than with AP rounds.
    and as someone noted: still HEAT gets no pen-drop at all, so stronk soviet HEAT-sniping is even more likely.

    I very much liked the comment about limiting prem-ammo in general to ca. +15% pen. this is IMHO enough and if MTs cannot go straight frontally through a HT: very good. they are more mobile and have better soft-stats (gunwise and mobilitywise). even on most of the corridor maps you can trick the heavies into situations where you can shoot them in the side.

    for the acc-change: well, I for one am looking with some suspicion towards it. less snapshots by IS-3 and the like are a plus in my book. and sometimes it is ridiculous, how tanks with over 0,4 acc just drive around the corner and snapshot a tank with ease.

    something the should take care of: the tier 10 MTs are IMHO not very well balanced. the soviet MTs get the very good stats which are favoured by meta (hard enough turrets, very good mobility and still high pen, laserlike acc even on the move and great DPM.


  22. From WG’s Sandbox article: “To balance these underpowered heavies, we boosted their alpha to 440.”

    Yeah, just hold on there.

    The only “underpowered” heavy in the list of [T57 Heavy, T110E5, AMX 50 B, FV 215b and Kranvagn] is the 215b. The rest all have their own valid playstyles and strengths.
    (The “215b can sidescrape” card does not change this)

    The fact that WG think the rest are “underpowered” (including the E5, like seriously?!?) says so much.


  23. They must do this by purpose to boost premium account sales because they know people will resort to more gold usage if they will hit and pen less standard shells. Such a foul act by WG really.


  24. Why waste so much time with all of this? In the end, they will reach the same conclusion: just nerf the hell out of artillery, rebalance some vehicles which were massively buffed for being natural arty targets and all is good.
    Arty is the root of all the problems. Nothing can truly be fixed if the root of the problem remains.


  25. Now storm wants to decrese shell travel time greatly and reduce damage on range in order to make sniping useless and thereby making armor more relevant. Why does this baboon fail to see that arty and gold ammo is what makes armor useless. And IF standard ammo is too high pen reduce it.

    The only way to test anything is to remove gold ammo and arty and then start messing with accuracy, ´pen drop and shell travel time etc. Everybody know that as long as gold ammo is better than standard ammo, any balancing efforts in terms of armor will be useless.

    Storm is a fucking moron and so are all WG balancing staff because they only think about money. But how will they make money if they ruin the game and make people play other games?


  26. Also armor has never been underpowered towards standard ammo, only towards gold ammo so why they fuck dont WG remove/nerf gold ammo for the sake of balance. I am sure they can earn money oin pther ways than this game breaking BS ammo type.


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