WoT: Suggestion for Additional Swedish & Japanese Tech Tree Lines

source: reddit

Disclaimer: while I know SPG is a very unpopular class, my OCD does not allow me to do this without including them.

I was also going to have all the images in the post but that was a bit excessive, so please enjoy the links instead

With that said, I’ll start with the Swedish;

Light tanks;

Tier 4 – Pvkv IV ‘Varjan

A 1950 turret prototype to mount a 57mm Pvkan m/43 cannon was tested on the Strv m/40L. Although it was designated a tank destroyer, the project was essentially just re-arming the existing 37mm armed light tanks that were in service.

Tier 5 – Terro

A project by Landsverk in 1942 to offer a light tank with better armour and combat power as a competitor to the Strv m/42 ‘Lago’. It was to be armed with a 37mm gun and later 57mm, and set to have a top speed of 45km/h but was eventually rejected in the drawing stage.

Tier 6 – Pilen

Another Landsverk project from 1949. As we can see from the archive drawing, it was to weight 17t, feature a 324hp engine giving it a theoretical top speed of 60km/h. It was to be armed with a 75mm gun.

As a fun fact, a lot of Swedish tanks of this time period are listed to have “Motyl 25” fuel which is 25% ethanol and 75% gasoline, there was also Motyl 50 and Motyl 75. We see something similar today as E85

Tier 7 – IKV 65 Alt 5

This is where things can get pretty fun. In 1964 a project called ‘IKV NY’ started and the goal was for a low cost tank with good mobility that could both support infantry and fight other tanks as their aging armour wasn’t capable any more. Armaments for consideration ranged from ATGM’s, 10.5cm and 12cm gun, but ultimate for cost purposes an 9cm gun was chosen.

Three companies put forward proposals for the project: Landsverk (6 proposals as the IKV 65), Bofors (5 proposals as the IKV 90) and Hagglunds (6 proposals as the H-series).

As the name suggests, the IKV 65 II (tier 6 TD) was another proposal next to this tank by Landsverk

Tier 8 – IKV H1

Hagglands had put forward concepts for the possibility of using foreign engines and guns including the French DTAT 90mm L/51,5 from the AMX-13, a Bofors 90mm L/53 and a DTAT 105mm. All guns were could either be conventionally loaded, fully automated or a semi-autoloader w/ 4 round magazine.

Eventually Hagglands IKV H1 would be eventually be redesigned and become the IKV 91

Tier 9 – IKV 91

Needing no introduction, the IKV 91 would be the ideal top tier light tank for the Swedish tech tree. With a low weight of 16.3t and a 330hp engine, this absolutely beautiful piece of Swedish engineering could be propelled up to speeds of 65km/h.

The 90mm L/54 cannon would have a very comfortable -10 deg of gun depression in this low profile machine.

Tier 10 – IKV 105

Designed as an upgrade to the IKV 91, this tank was fitted with a new gun mantlet, a 105mm rifled gun and a redesigned hull front. Weight was increased to 18t and engine power increased to 380hp

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Medium Tanks

The first two tanks I’m going to suggest are just additions to the existing UDES 15/16 line to start them earlier

Tier 6 – IKV H5

For information, see the description of the IKV 65 Alt 5 and IKV H1.

Tier 7 – IKV Alt 5

A redesign of the Landsverk IKV H5

Tier 7 – Lansen

Arguably this could also be a tier 7 light tanks, the Lansen was originally designed to be lighter then the Strv Leo sharing a very similar design. From the drawings we can see the turret armour of 38/30/20 and hull armour of 35/28/15 and would have been armed with a 75mm gun.

This however wasn’t very favourable and the plan for a 20t tank shifted into a 25t tank.

Tier 8 – Lansen M/51 (image 2)

To meet the new requirement the Lansen was redesigned to have better frontal armour and a larger 10.5cm gun. With the weight limit increase the armour could be increased to 60/25/25 with some studies showing that even 100/12/12 was possible but this alternative wasn’t preferred.

While the upgraded turret would be similar to the premium Lansen C, the armour would be less and the hull front would be slightly different in design.

Tier 9 – Strv T

In 1958m Sweden started to look towards replacing the Strv 81. They looked towards the Leopard 1 and the Chieftain but ultimately decided that a locally built tank would be more desirable. Three initial designs were considered; Strv A, Strv T and the Strv S (which would go on to become the Strv 103). Although with the decision to end development of the Emil project, the Strv K would also appear.

The estimated weight of the tank was to be 32.5t with a SFA F12 723hp engine. Armament was to be the TK 105×50 10,5cm L/55 rifled gun with performance equal to the L7 with -7/+15 gun depression/elevation. Armour was not great with the hull being 50/35/35 and turret 75/50/30.

This design only lasted a few months before being shelved.

Tier 10 – Strv A

The Strv A was, essentially, Sweden’s answer to the British Chieftain and American M60. With an estimated weight of 42.5t and using the same SFA F12 engine making 723hp, the power to weight would have been about 17hp/t.

Initial expectations were for the tank to have 150mm of frontal armour, but after weight calculations it was reduced to 120mm.

The same 10,5cm as the Strv T was planned and able to carry 40 rounds, but equipped with an automatic loading system to give it a rate of fire of 20 rounds per minute (a bit excessive in-game. As a response to the American T95E6, a proposal to mount a 120mm gun was considered but later abandoned due to the minimal survivability increase and reduced ammo capacity.

Eventually consideration for this tank was dropped and interest returned to the British Chieftain before the Strv S concerns were cleared and development of it advanced.

Turret armour: 100/60/50

Hull Armour: 120/50/50

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Artillery / Self Propelled Guns

I’ll apologise again for this but there’s also next to 0% chance of us ever getting a new SPG line so there’s no harm in putting this here. I need to stress that the “autoloaders” that these tanks have are similar to that of the Strv 103, they are not drum fed like on the Emil tanks, or the French vehicles. They are still single shot.

Tier 5 – VAK 40 SPG / 105mm VAK SPG (image 1 / image 2 / image 3)

A proposal between 1949 and 1959. Bofors had proposed to mount a modernised 10,5cm Haubits m/40 onto the chassis of the lvkv fm/49 SPAAG. KATF was ordered to investigate if the same gun could be mounted onto a light tankette built by Landsverk (see linked images above)

Tier 6 – VK 105×60 2

10,5cm gun fed by an automatic loader giving it a hight rate of fire in a small, light weight vehicle weight 14.5t with a 300hp engine

Tier 7 – VK 105×60 1

A heavier version with a longer gun

Tier 8 – Kv fm/49 (also called the Akv 1949 and VK 152 S 49)

An initial prototype for the Artillerikanonvagn 151 (Akv 151) was mounted with an autoloaded 152mm cannon

Tier 9 – Akv 151

With the conclusion of the Emil project, one of the completed chassis was used to test the suspension system that would be used on the S-tank, the other would go on to become the Akv 151 which would be the foundation for what would later become the Bandkanon 1.

Tier 10 – Bkan 1

Like the Ikv 91 and the Strv 103, this vehicles is a very well known Swedish tank. Not because of the size of its cannon like the American T92, but because it could fire all 14 shells in its within 45 seconds thanks to the automatic loading system. By the time the first shell hits the ground and alerts the enemy of its presence, the remaining 13 shells are already in transit.

It’s no wonder people don’t want this in WoT, but considering it’s actually more akin to a single shot tank, this along with the other Swedish SPG would be balanced similary to the tier 9 French Bat.-Chat. 155 55.

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If you’ve made it this far, thanks you. Without further ado, onto the Japanese!

Edit: I will admit the Japanese are probably the more problematic to approach due to a lack of available options due to either lack of translated documents, lack of digitalized documents, my own lack of ability to find documents, or because those documents were destroyed. Because of this there’s a notable generational gap between a lot of what’s in the low/mid tiers compared to the high tiers. I tried to fill the line with tanks that were at least historical but ultimately, to make the line more competitive or consistent, there would more then likely be a number of fictitious tanks in the mid and high tiers to complete the lines unless other documents exist.

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Medium Tanks

I wanted to do a slight redesign of the MT line. The Chi-Ri would stay at tier 7 but would offshoot to lead into the Ho-Ri II that is based off it. The STA-1, Type 61 and STB-1 would be rebalanced down a tier for the Type 74 at tier 10

Tier 10 – Type 74

The production version of the STB-1, it was decided to reduce the hull front from 100mm to 80mm in order to be able to increase the turrets frontal armour. Other notable changes include a redesigned and notable lower profile commanders cupola.

While the top speed is listed at 54km/h, there are reports that it has reached speeds up to 60 km/h.

This change to the tech tree would ultimately allow the tier 9 and 10 tanks to play similar to each other, more so then we have now going from the Type 61 to the STB-1.

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Light Tanks

Regarding Japanese light tanks, there’s not a lot going on historically for the top tiers. While I have offered options that existed, another alternative is that WG could fabricate light tanks based on the STB-1/Type 74 just like they did for the Type 68/Type 71 heavy tanks

Tier 4 – Ke-Ho

This tanks already in the game under the collections

Tier 5 – Ke-Ri

The Type 3 Ke-Ri was a prototype to upgrade the Ha-Go with a Type 97 57mm gun. Due to the cramped nature of the turret, it was not mass produced.

Tier 6 – Ke-Nu

Like the Ke-Ri, the Ke-Nu aimed to upgrade the Ha-Go, it achieved this by mounting the old turret of the Chi-Ha medium tank when it got its own new turret.

Tier 7 and 8 – STA JWIG

Before the Type 61 prototypes (ST-A1, ST-A2, ST-A3 and ST-A4) that we have as medium tanks weighting 35t, there was the plan for a 20t tank armed with a 76mm gun which eventually evolved into a 25t tank with 90mm gun. Eventually the weight would once again go up 30t but for arguments sake I think the 20t and 25t would be a decent fit for tier 7 and 8 respectively.

Tier 9 – Type 60 SS-1

Double barrel light tank. The Type 60 SS-1 was one of a number of prototype tanks to mount a two 105mm M40 recoilless rifles. The notable feature of this tank was that the guns could be raised and lowered allowing it to get a monstrous -20 deg of gun depression.

For a fun fact, there was also the Type 60 SS-1 “Kai” that had the guns at a fixed hight but it had four guns, which still pales in comparison to the SIX that were mounted on the M50 Ontos

It should also be noted that the Type 60 was actually classed as a tank destroyer.

Tier 10 – Type 60

With a weight of just 8t, it has an undersized engine at 150hp giving it just 15 hp/t and a top speed of 55km/h. This light tank, with its small height of 1.38m would be incredibly stealthy, but the lower power to weight would make it terrible for active scouting, instead it would excel at passive scouting and ambushing tanks

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Edit: an alternative option for the LT line be this (credit to leggasiini)

The Ke-Ni Otsu at tier 6, the STA JWIG’s moved down a tier, a fake LT based on the Type 61 at tier 8, a fake LT based on the STB-1/Type 74 at tier 9 and finally a 25t project based on the Type 75 chassis.

While I would have liked to use more historical tanks, it was a bit too ambitious and led to tanks that would have been unsuitable and way overtiered for their performance. This alternative option would aim to solve those issues.

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Artillery / Self Propelled Guns

Once again we’re at Arty. Please forgive me

Tier 5 – Ho-Ni II

Produced in 1943, this variant of the Ho-Ni had an open casement and mounted a Type 91 105mm howitzer. It featured a slightly changed superstructure. Due to the larger gun, it could only traverse the gun 10 deg left and right compared to the 20 of the Ho-Ni I’s smaller Type 75mm gun. Due to the guns recoil it could only elevate the gun 22 deg giving it a very flat firing arc

Tier 6 – Hi-Ro Sha

An open top tank sporting a Type 92 10cm cannon was built using the chassis of the Type 95 heavy tank. The other tank built on this chassis was the Ji-Ro (tier 6 TD in-game). The Ji-Ro was originally considered to mount the Type 96 15cm howitzer but was abandoned but could be used on the Hi-Ro Sha instead in-game

Tier 7 – Ho-To

Built on the chassis of the Type 95 Ha-Go light tank chassis, there’s no information regarding the engine ever changing meaning with a 120hp engine and weight of 7.4, this tank could hit speed between 40-45 km/h.

Armament was to be a 12cm Type 38 Field Howitzer

Tier 8 –Ho-Ro

The Type 4 Ho-Ro was based on the existing Type 95 Chi-Ha in 1944 and was inspired by the German Grile. Armament was a 15cm Type 38 howitzer.

If it’s not obvious by now, the Japanese artillery post WWII is lacking.

Tier 9 – Type 74 SPH

Lacking until now that is. Built off the chassis of the Type 73 APC, it entered service in 1974, the Type 74 was armed with a 105mm JSW howitzer that the JDF believed was still useful for its high rate of fire and accurate infantry support

Weighing in at 16.5t with a 300hp engine for a 18.4 hp/t, this tank could move at speeds of 50 km/h and had a fully traversable turret. and could carry 43 rounds of ammo.

It would be the demon child of a leFH and Bat-Chat 155 55

Tier 10 – Type 75

Just like the Type 74 SPH, this tank is built on the chassis of the Type 73 APC, it entered service in 1975 and was armed with a larger 155mm howitzer in a fully traversable turret.

The weight was increased to 25.3t and the engine produced 450hp (17.78hp/t) for a top speed of 47km/h

If you made it this far, thanks for sticking around and reading.

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Edit: Changed the image for the Ho-To. Thanks to Jura20702 for pointing out that I had used the image of a Ho-Ro