121B. Statistics with crew at 100%:
Max speed / Reverse speed: 50 / -20 km / h  55 / -25 km / h
Hull armor: 130 / 80 / 60Â Â 135 / 80 / 60 mm
Turret armor: 240 / 160 / 60Â Â 275 / 200 / 60 mm
Gun: 105 mm L7C
Rate of fire: 7,19Â Â 7,73 rounds/minute
Damage per minute: 2 805Â Â 3 013
Damage per minute with HE: 3 453Â Â 3 708
Reload time: 8,34 s  7,77 s
Aim spread:
- at the maximum vehicle speed:
7,00Â Â 7,70.
M60. Statistics with crew at 100%:
Turret armor: 178 / 76 / 51Â Â 254 / 76 / 51 mm
Depending on how the armor is modeled that M60 buff could make it a pretty interesting vehicle. Right now it’s more like a Leopard 1 but could end up like an STB-1.
looks good.. My 121 sitting in garage collecting dust.
I think the 121B here got the better buff and is the better tank compared to the M60.
The standard 121 in game is stuck with 240 on the turret front but suffers from flat cheeks so they’ll always be 240 effective. Now that the 121B is getting 275 with the 135 upper plate, it seems to be an over buff as this tank is superior to the standard 121. But we’ll have to see if it’s OP, since it’s stuck with -5 degrees of gun depression.
The M60 look likes it’ll have the same turret armor layout as the M48A5 in game. But with that machine gun cupola and having flat angled front plates means you have more weak spots than the standard M48A5, and more importantly you lose the auto bounce zones and the ability to trick bounce effectively.
If you want one of these tanks before the switch I’d say get the 121B over the M60. 121B is a T-62a or an old school 430, but armed with a 105mm gun which will allow you to over match 35mm of armor plating, which the 100mm guns will auto ricochet off of at angles. And you get those nice 105mm HESH shells too, good for dealing with those EBRs if the HE shell rework goes through.
Only thing is WG supertest can change stats anytime
The 121b reload was better than I expected
T54 Mod 1 – 190 mm penetration AP ammo like this! GG WG!
ese M60 seguira igual con ese muñon arriba estaria bien si lo dejan con la torreta de su hermano de tier x de rama asi estaria bien
They can put 500 mm of turret armor on the M60 it will not make it any better because everyone will still shoot at the massive weakspot with 120 mm of armor.
and thats exactly how every tank should be !
proper weakpoints are a necessity
No, that’s not how it should be, because 1) it punishes the player for actually positioning his tank correctly and 2) it promotes frontal pixel-clicking rather than using tactics such as flanking.
If your tank has good turret armor, you should be able to use this strength by going hulldown, but that doesn’t work when you have a weakspot on top of the turret. If you hide your turret you can not shoot and each time you want to shoot you will get clicked in the cupola. That’s why the armor is useless, because if you are dependant on peeking only when the enemy is not aimed at you, you might aswell have no armor at all.
Also, a tank game should not be about clicking at specific pixels, but rather about flanking targets that you can’t penetrate frontally. Yes, I know that the current maps are forcing us to brawl in corridors, but the solution to this is to have proper maps and not to have weakspots everywhere.
Pixel clicks are great, u can do it also
i think you just forgot that p2w GOLD kinda allows you to do exactly the samething:
to punish players which play their tanks corectly
why? BECAUSE YOU FKIN PAY !
now, with weakpoints, you still need to aim, to KNOW them first, and then to hit where you aim. This is exactly how it should be. And is exactly the same chance for EVERYONE, not only for p2w trogs
its not all about flanking….just think about same class tanks clash. What are you suposed to do in a slow heavy vs another slow heavy?? Flank it?? teach us how master
aaa…load the fukin gold and pen?? NO THX !
KNOW enemy weakness and aim for it ?? HERE WE GO !
sorry, but lack of weakpoints only promotes imbecile P2W goldspam, not flanking, not strategy, not knowlegde, nothing from what WoT was suposed to be
Just to point out that I’m not a defender of premium ammo so no need to use that argument. In my opinion having a “penetration inflation” is just as bad as having a “weakspot inflation”. I don’t understand why some WoT players feel that they need to penetrate each shell and why they make such a big problem out of bouncing a shell. This is a tank game, it’s perfectly normal to not penetrate a shot. In fact, that’s how it should be, penetrating shots against highly armored targets should be difficult. Tanks have armor for a reason, it’s really that simple.
Regarding your question about two heavy tanks fighting each other. Think about how it would turn out in real life, an aspect that this “tank game” has a serius lack of and therefore also balancing issues. What do you think would happen in real life in a Tiger vs IS-2 fight? Simple physics tell me that both of them are going to struggle to penetrate each other frontally at longer ranges, however as they close the distance this will become increasingly easier. That’s how it should work. But since the WG developers are unable to simulate reality, we instead have clown parties at shotgun range where most armor is either overpowered or useless and where players spam a combination of W/S to wiggle around while clicking at pixel weakspots. That’s not what tank combat is about.
To put it short, the “need of weakspots” is just a result of the incredibly bad design choices that has been made for this game. I would rather prefer if they fixed the game at its core rather than gluing it together with quick-fixes that only makes the game even more stupid.
HE shells was also used in tank vs tank combat so that is also an option if they where modeled a bit more realistic. But for some reason many WoT players have HE-phobia. Appearently you are an “idiotic noob” if you decide to shoot HE shells when the armor piercing ones doesn’t penetrate. I have to say that for being a tank game this game represents tank combat exceptionally bad.
It doesn’t punish anyone for anything. Going hulldown so greatly reduces the amount of tank the enemy team can hurt; for vehicles with good turret armor, that shrinks it even further to a fraction of the turret size.
Weakspots don’t prevent this.
Weakspots are not magnetic. They have to be aimed for. Turret weakspots don’t somehow break your tracks, either, you are free to move and make it an even more difficult shot.
Seems fair. Everyone whines about artillery for the fact that they can’t immediately return fire. If you could hide your turret and still fire–you can, but many players don’t abuse it–you would be whining even harder, that these tanks are invincible no matter how good your gun is.
Nobody is making you sit still at 10m.
It’s been working quite fine for quite some time. I think the problem is the player inside the tank at this point.
Did you know you can peek when the enemy is preaiming on you and still not take damage, even with a large weakspot? It doesn’t sound like it. It’s a great skill to learn.
For players who sit still until they’re killed, no quantity of armor would suffice.
I’m not sure you’re aware of tank tactics of WW2. The whole reason we built 76mm M1A2 and rapidly built as many M36 Jacksons as we could was so we could penetrate dead center mass on Panthers used correctly by the Wehrmacht. The same impetus is true for improving 85mm ammo quality on the Soviet side. Tanks on all sides only engage in maneuver to better focusfire–to preserve their own number–and destroy enemy target more effectively. Read: At all points in history, if you can’t blow through someone, you call up someone who can, sit back, and observe. The optimal is that the first shot kills–mission, mobility, or otherwise–the enemy tank.
The solution is both. It’s important that lower tier players be able to have a chance to play the game too. What you are suggesting is that you should get to be immune because it’s somehow not fair to you.
Finally:
You should look up the Tiger I’s training sometime. They were trained to aim for weakspots such as gunsights or periscopes, and had the accuracy and ballistics to do so. This idea that your gun can’t kill the enemy is entirely baseless.
“Weakspots don’t prevent this.”
If turret weakspots doesn’t prevent you from effectively using your armor when being hulldown then there wouldn’t be any point in having the weakspots in the first place. The whole reason you want tanks to have weakspots on their turrets is so you can damage them even though they’ve positioned themselves perfectely relative to you.
“M36 Jacksons”
What a waste of resources to develop a tank destroyer with a 90 mm gun. They could have just used their classical Sherman tanks and sniped the commanders hatch on those Panthers. In case you didn’t get it, that was sarcasm.
“important that lower tier players be able to have a chance to play”
Even more reason to promote flanking rather than pixel-sniping weakspots. When that lower tier player flanks he can even stay concealed, compared to pixel-sniping weakspots in corridor maps, where he will probably get slapped back for half his hitpoints.
“They were trained to aim for weakspots such as gunsights or periscopes”
Good luck hitting a periscope on a moving target 1000-2000 meters away. Why would they even bother when their powerful gun could basically penetrate anything from the front. You have obviously no idea what you’re talking about.
well, the M60 turret will need a view on the armor model to be judged better. if they make it comparable to M48A2, this would be much appreciated, as the cupola is currently an easypen that makes it extremly hard to work ridgelines.
I bought it for bonds and in general I like it, but compared so some others (overbuffed Obj 140 …) it looks not really competitive. make it a bit worse than M48 (as you can use the crew from other tanks because “prem”) and we rare fine. M60 has slightly better gun handling (aimtime and acc) but slightly less dpm. and M60 has higher mobility, which is welcome.
M60 is a dangerous tank to buff armor on since it has godly gun handling and depression levels so I think leaving the huge weakpoint is appropriate. I really hope they don’t overbuff these tanks.
I agree. The turret buff is welcome; taking away the weakspot would be too much, though.
If only WG had the balls to nerf ridiculously OP tanks such as the Chieftard …
Agree
It was said in an earlier supertest that the cupola geometry is being changed, so I believe we’re getting the Israeli cupola on M60.