SPG Rebalance: Changing the Stun Parameters

Commanders!

Commonly known as artillery or “arty” for short, the SPG is a truly unique vehicle class in World of Tanks, and a significant number of World of Tanks fans play them.

Coming a long way in their development, SPGs have found their place among existing vehicles starting of as  pronounced “damage dealers” that evolved into support machines. Now’s the time to tell you how we want to change their stun parameters based on a long study of statistics and your feedback we’ve accumulated since 2017.   

SPG retrospectiveC

Why Are We Doing This Rebalance? A Retrospective View

In April 2017, we adjusted the artillery settings as part of Update 0.9.18. Since then, World of Tanks has changed significantly but SPGs as a class have remained largely untouched. We’ve added new branches of vehicles and new nations, and reworked elements of the matchmaker. Now we’re finally ready to take the next step and make some adjustments to this unique class. But first, let’s look at how artillery has evolved in recent years.

One-shots, Platoons and Giant Damage

Those of you who played World of Tanks before Update 0.9.18 will remember the significant damage that artillery could cause, thanks to their high alpha. Shells struck you suddenly, and you didn’t have the opportunity to avoid them. This situation concerned the overwhelming majority of vehicles, no matter the armour thickness.

As a result, many players — especially those in heavies and vehicles with low speed — preferred not to take risks. Instead, they remained in locations guaranteed to be safe from artillery fire, which affected the battle dynamics. The probability of receiving high alpha damage didn’t encourage you to take active and useful actions. Plus, at that time arty had some other “charms” that seemed to add fuel to the fire. For example:

  • Firing HEAT and AP shells resulted in huge damage, much more significant than the average damage of high explosive shells in the case of non-penetration
  • No limit on the number of SPGs in one team. In some battles, more than half a team was made up of artillery
  • The possibility of playing in Platoons consisting of two or three SPGs. Thanks to their coordinated work, such a Platoon could control the entire map, having too much influence over the outcome of local battles in different directions.

But also for those who played on SPGs, it was no picnic. The long reloading time (much longer than other tanks), low accuracy and high dispersion served as a kind of retribution for their excessively high combat effectiveness.

Update 0.9.18 and Its Solutions  

Update 0.9.18 marked truly global changes for SPGs. In April 2017, we:

  • Removed all shells other than HE from standard SPGs
  • Significantly reduced the armor penetration and alpha damage of HE shells
  • Imposed a limit of up to 3 SPGs per team and one SPG per Platoon
  • Increased SPG accuracy and reduced their dispersion and aiming time.

In addition, in order to turn SPGs into effective team players, rather than individual machines, we introduced an entirely new stun mechanic. Now, tanks caught in the arty burst radius had their characteristics temporarily weakened. As a result, an arty’s successful actions on the allied team could bring invaluable benefits and turn the tide of battle.  

Changes we made have had different effects on all SPGs, but in general the number of penetrations decreased significantly. During the rebalancing process we significantly reduced the nominal damage of HE shells and decreased the average damage caused by arty, both during the battle and with a single shot.

NOTE: As a result of all the changes, the full-damage penetration rate of all SPGs significantly decreased. For example, the Object 261’s full-damage penetration rate decreased sevenfold. In addition, Tier X SPGs began to cause 6% less damage per battle on average.

New Challenges  

After Update 0.9.18, gameplay for SPGs changed and artillery became a more command-oriented class. The focus when playing SPGs changed from dealing high damage to a specific target to causing damage to a wider number of vehiclesThe artillery began to pay more attention to the map sectors, where there were a lot of enemy tanks and where the allies most needed help.

However, the new stun mechanics brought up some new questions. As a result, you have given us feedback regarding the following points:

  • Long stun time when under fire from several SPGs. Currently every new stun works independently from the previous one. As a result, players who find themselves under fire from several SPGs can get a massive extension of the stun effect, which is not limited in any way. Such a situation is especially inconvenient for heavies and other slow machines: due to the constant stuns, they are forced to stand still with reduced characteristics and remain inactive. As a result, these machines become an easy target for adversaries.
  • The mechanics of getting a long stun even without taking damage. In situations where the SPG shell falls far from a tank and causes minimal damage, there comes a stun time, which in any case reduces the performance characteristics, regardless of the amount of the inflicted damage.

We want to change this situation. The most significant changes for the upcoming rebalance of artillery affect stun mechanics. Our main goal is to reduce the total stun time, especially after being hit by several SPGs in a row.C

Our Adjustments

Our adjustments will consist of several large blocks. First we’re planning to reduce the duration of the stun from all artillery hits on already stunned vehicles. But let’s quickly take a look at a bit of theory, it will help you better understand the mechanics of the upcoming changes.

How Is the Stun Time Calculated Now?

The maximum stun time consists of two components:

  •  The first component is constant for each SPG shell and doesn’t depend on the damage inflicted. In the shell settings, this value is set by a coefficient from 0 to 1, and in your Garage it’s displayed as “minimum stun time” in seconds. This is one of the balance parameters of the shell – the same, for example, as penetration or velocity. This parameter is configured individually for each SPG shell, which has the ability to cause stun.
  •  The second component is a conditionally variable value, which is calculated depending on the damage caused by the shell. This characteristic is not specified in the game client directly, but it’s easy to calculate. This value depends on the damage, and each time it is different.   

In summary, both these components (constant and variable) are equal to one (1). Let’s consider their ratio on the example of the Object 261. At the moment, this SPG has the following characteristics:

  • Constant Share of Stun = 0.45
  • Shell Stun Time (maximum stun time) = 29 seconds
  • Minimum Stun Time = Constant Shell Stun Percentage * Maximum Stun Time = 0.45 * 29 = 13.05 seconds

Based on this data, we can calculate the variable amount of stun and its ratio with a constant value:

  • Constant Share of Stun = 0.45
  • Variable Stun Percentage = 1 – Constant Percentage Stun = 1 – 0.45 = 0.55

What Do We Want to Change?

For clarity, let’s consider the situation when the Object 261 fires at the IS-7.

  1. We will modify the constant component of the stun, which doesn’t depend on the damage. Accordingly, we’ll  increase the influence of the variable component by 5%. Using the example of the Object 261, this ratio will change from 0.45 and 0.55 to 0.4 and 0.6. This will change the minimum stun time for the Object 261 from 13.05 to 11.67 seconds.
  2. We will also modify the second component of the stun, which depends on the damage. We will change the distribution of damage from the splash depending on the distance from the tank to the center of the explosion. Now this range is from 0.5 in the center of the splash to 0.15 on the edge. We will reduce the amount of damage at the edge of the splash from 0.15 to 0.05. This will decrease all splash damage, except for cases when a high-explosive shell explodes directly on the armor. And this, in turn, will lead to a slight decrease in the second component of the stun.

B

3. If you are already under the effect of being stunned, then any further stun is halved (1/2 stun). To better understand this mechanic, let’s take a look at a specific example below.

4. We will reduce the stun time when an SPG shell hits a vehicle, which is already under the effect of a stun, if this machine is equipped with a Spall Liner. Now the Superheavy Spall Liner will reduce the additional stun time by an additional 20%, and a Heavy Spall Liner by 10%. For example, if the additional stun time is 15 seconds, when using Superheavy Spall Liner it will be reduced to 12 seconds, and in the case of Heavy Spall Liner to 13.5 seconds.

Changing the Additional Stun Parameters

Currently if the additional stun time is longer than the remaining time of the previous stun, then the additional stun time is added to the total stun time, as shown in the illustration below:

The first stun is 20 seconds. After 8 seconds, another shell hits your vehicle, adding another 23 seconds. And the total time will be 8 + 23 = 31 seconds.

After changing this mechanic, additional stuns will automatically be halved in time. So, the total time stunned will decrease:

The first stun is 20 seconds. After 8 seconds, another shell hits your vehicle, adding another 23 seconds. It is then halved, so the total stun time is 8 + 12= 20 seconds.

As you can see, the difference between 31 and 20 seconds is significant. During this time, you can change your position, deal damage to opponents, reset the base capture, etc. Thanks to the new mechanic, the stun time from the repeated hit of a SPG will be greatly reduced. There will also be more cases in which the stun timer will not change at all when you are additionally stunned.

If the time of any stun is less than 5 seconds, the stun time will not apply.

Changes In the Characteristics of  SPGs

The changes for each of the points are small, but together they will lead to a significant reduction in the duration of stuns, especially from additional stuns. These changes will affect different SPGs in different ways, depending on the settings of these machines and their current combat effectiveness. That is why we’re planning to change the performance characteristics of individual SPGs in order to tune their effectiveness after the announced changes take effect. In particular, we’ll reduce the splash radius by 5% for the following machines:

Re-balanced VehiclesC

  • G.W. Panther
  • G.W. Tiger (P)
  • G.W. Tiger
  • G.W. E 100
  • M12
  • M40/M43
  • M53/M55
  • S-51
  • SU-14-1
  • SU-14-2
  • 212А
  • Conqueror Gun Carriage
  • Object 261

We will also make individual adjustments to the performance characteristics of the following SPGs:

Conqueror Gun Carriage:

  • Reduce shell velocity by 35 m/s (395 -> 360).

G.W. Panther:

  • Reduce accuracy by 0.02 (0.66 -> 0.68; 0.62 -> 0.64);
  • Increase reload speed by 1 second (27.2 -> 28.2; 26.0 -> 27.0);
  • Increase the dispersion from turret rotation by 0.02 (0.46 -> 0.48; 0.44 -> 0.46).

Everything above is just our operational concept of the SPG rebalance. First, we want to test all these changes extensively during supertests. And of course, we want to know your opinion regarding our suggestions. We will continue to work on further rebalancing of SPGs based on the test results and your feedback.    

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68 thoughts on “SPG Rebalance: Changing the Stun Parameters

    1. Even if they do make a point of taking feedback, we have a different problem in that the official WoT forums are infested with dedicated arta players who have no earthly idea how cancerous they are for everyone else. Naturally they’re going to say how awful it is that sky-ebola might be nerfed, and if WG listens to them, the problem will remain unsolved, or worse- the problem may only grow.

      Like

  1. Just remove it, make it a consumable, or ability like in war thunder. Give free xp compensation to player who grinded arties. That’s the only way forward

    Liked by 2 people

        1. Yeah, but its still a part of the game from the very beginning. You cant just take it away…
          People actually grinded those things. What are you going to say to them? Here, have a buttload of free xp and credits, please sod off?!

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          1. Well, if it makes it possible to research an entire techtree for free. It seems like a good option to me.

            It was indeed a part of the game from the very beginning. And it was the most hated thing in the game from the beginning and it will ever be like that. It’s the most stupid thing in WOT.

            Liked by 1 person

      1. Calling someone a moron without a counter-argument?

        The guy actually gave some ideas, and all you did was complain, you are the problem with wot community not him

        Like

  2. Don’t get too excited. They are supposedly testing the first iteration of the premium ammo rebalance since December and MM rework since November and we haven’t got any news about how the testing is going.

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    1. To be fair, MM changes were tested on live server already and it went pretty well. And premium ammo rebalance faced a harsh criticism from RU community. “Nothing wrong with premium ammo, I fucked your mother” all over the forums.

      Like

    2. I don’t feel like game needs indirect buffs to superheavies (gold ammo and arty rebalance).
      For example mid tier mediums are completely underpowered.
      On higher tiers game is designed in a way that using golds became a must, cause tanks have no weakspots and they can’t be flanked. At least SPG makes games for superheavies somewhat frustrating and sadly for other classes too.
      I don’t feel it’s necessary to nerf it, cause it has no capability of spotting, it sucks on city maps and it does not excel on other maps as damage dealer. But it’s broken, cause there is no way to avoid being hit while being active in the game. And they can select someone and ruin whole battle for him.

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      1. The problem is that arty is responsible for the many buffs super heavies got in the process. There was a time when WG actually tried to nerf super heavies, but arty hunted them down to extinction, and because nobody wanted to be arty bait, WG begun to buff super heavies to incentivize people into playing them. Arty is the root of all the imbalances in the game. The game can never be truly balanced for as long as arty is in it.

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  3. Thanks wg. So much time to have artys then u fuck them all… while fv4005, t49 can still oneshot everyone. Give me back all the xp form tier 8 to 10 which i had to reach to buy artys and delete them from the game. Useless animals…

    Like

    1. To one-shot with a T49 or FV4005 you actually need to expose yourself and to know weakspots. And then it still depends on luck/RNG. In other words: it needs skill and it takes a risk.

      With arty however… Well, it’s just retarded that it’s still in the game. It’s just there to troll players that are driving an actual tank.

      If they are going to nerf arty harder (or remove it completely), I might install WoT again.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. “To one-shot with a T49 or FV4005 you actually need to expose yourself and to know weakspots.”

        No you don’t.
        If this was true, people would play the Type 5 with the AP cannon. They don’t for one reason: it does damage everytime it hits.

        I will agree on the T49. No arguments there.

        The FV4005, however, is a Tank Destroyer, which mounts a modified artillery gun. In-game it’s the same result as previous SPGs, before 9.17/18.

        It doesn’t need to expose itself to inflict tremendous damage. I’ve witnessed these vehicles again and again destroying enemy tanks without even showing up on the minimap again and again and again.

        The gameplay is essentially the same as arty without the indirect component. Artillery isn’t able to one shot tanks, even if it pens (save probably for low tiers or when fighting low tiers)

        Concerning “Luck/RNG”? FV4005 can roll for as high as 2187. This means anything that is not a HT can be destroyed with 1 shot. And even some HTs will be destroyed by this. At the same time it can roll as low as 1313.

        Our strongest SPG, T92 HMC has this damage as base. It doesn’t inflict this average damage thanks to its poor pen and to go with that, it has a 40s reload.

        Tank Destroyers, like that one, have mobility, camo, firepower, and in some cases, armour. They give absolutely nothing in return to be that strong.

        The ones being trolled are those who are unfortunately removed from a game because someone pointed and clicked on them with those guns. Which takes very little skill to do. And they are also driving “actual tanks”.

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        1. Ive been one shouted by one in my light tank.. Yeah I feel you. Id rather be smacked by an SPG shooting gold ammo at me.. (The gold makes no difference as its worthless) then being hit by a type 5 deathstar and scumfucks shooting nothing but the 2 key at me..

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        2. Let’s think for a second here.The only good thing about FV4005 is the gun. It’s still super derpy and has a very long reload, keep that in mind. And the vehicle doesn’t have camo, doesn’t have armor, doesn’t have good mobility. Every shot is a gamble and if you’re spotted you’re fucking dead. So overpowered, unbelievable. It’s not like it requires careful positioning, good timing and a lot of luck to have a good game, nooo, it’s just like arta, that can snipe you behind cover without moving from it’s spawn. Oh, wait, you’re wrong.

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          1. “The only good thing about FV4005 is the gun”
            >Same as artillery.

            ” It’s still super derpy and has a very long reload, keep that in mind.”
            Again, same as artillery. Only SPGs usually have twice the reload for their tier.

            “And the vehicle doesn’t have camo,”
            But it does have the TD camo bonus. So it’s actually better than that of an SPG and it can be used, provided there’s a competent driver behind it.

            “Doesn’t have armor, doesn’t have good mobility.”
            >Whaddya know? Just like artillery. And that’s not quite true. Mobility was improved slightly in the past.

            “Every shot is a gamble and if you’re spotted you’re fucking dead.”
            >Aren’t clickers like this too?

            “So overpowered, unbelievable.”
            With the ability to reward a player massively with the push of a button, yes. Definitely.
            Arty was changed to prevent one shots. How come this vehicle wasn’t?

            “It’s not like it requires careful positioning,”
            >Shooting from a bush from A2 sure isn’t careful positioning. There’s a reason why TDs are difficult to destroy end game and it has a lot to do with the fact they barely leave the base.

            “…good timing….”
            >Just like all other classes

            “… and a lot of luck to have a good game”
            >I’d rather depend on my own skill than lucky, but this now is a personal opinion.

            “t’s just like arta, that can snipe you behind cover without moving from it’s spawn.”
            >Bushes are cover. And barely moving from the spawn point isn’t much different than not moving at all but I’ll give you that.

            “Oh, wait, you’re wrong.”
            >Let’s think for a second here.

            Like

            1. And still arty can shoot over cover to the other end of the map without having to expose itself. An FV or another TD has to be in renderrange and can’t shoot over cover. Besides, in the current corridormeta long range possibilities are very rare.

              However, I agree that oneshotting should be banned from the game. Nor arty, nor TD’s should have this possibility.

              Like

    2. pfff… with arty, you sit in the corner of the map and in half of your games you won’t even get spotted, unless someone get close to you. ask anyone who plays fv4005 or t49 or any normal tank if they have a single game when he didn’t got spotted . maybe if they have been afc and the team won the game without them, or at best if they camped on the red line next to arty

      Like

    3. T49 can rarely oneshot a tier 7 light tank (it needs to hit thin armor at good angle and not track). It’s pure lottery and it happens twice in hundred games. It’s definitely not the tank that can oneshot everyone. I’m not saying it can’t completely cripple other light tanks or CDC or anything when it can hit engine deck, but it’s pretty uncommon and most of the time it needs taking lot of risk to do so.

      Like

  4. Wow, it took them two full years to decide to reduce stun duration by 2 whole seconds.

    Given that they say the massive arty “nerf” only managed to reduce damage dealt by arty by 6%, they could easily have gotten rid of stun entirely and made everyone happier.

    Like

  5. I mean it’s a start but in the end this is a wall of text and a 7 minutes video to say “stun will not last as long”.

    But stun is still there, you still have a piece of shit that can make your crew go back to 50% training for 15s, making an Object 140 handle like a Maus.

    How about just remove the stun mechanic. Arties already deal à lot of damage with the increased RoF and accuracy since 9.18. They used to have more alpha but the splash and accuracy were so low it was not rare to do nothing for games. Now you can hit more reliably, more often. Stun was never needed.

    Like

  6. Remove the SPG pest completely! Arty players are mental defects, autistics and vermin who has to make up for their worthless skills in playing regular tanks.

    Like

    1. Well your nick suggest that you admire war criminals…that by the way lost tehir war…shouldw e take your BS serious here?

      Like

      1. Hero to some war criminal to others, I’m sure the biased and unfair picture the west has of him hasn’t influenced you at all….

        Like

  7. Light tanks hate Mediums outspotting them and having better DPM
    Mediums hate Super Heavies just blocking corridors and bouncing their shots
    Super Heavies hate TD’s sniping from the back unspotted
    TD’s hate light tanks spotting them and ruining their bush camping fun
    Everyone hates SPG’s

    What a hateful game!

    Liked by 1 person

  8. Arty does the opposite of what it was designed for. The whole concept is flawed in wot. Essentialy, arty pusnish players who are active in the game and move around. Move around = spotted more frequently. Even 2 arties are too much as they will stun you to death. Limit arty to 1 per team and remove XVM.

    Like

  9. What if we keep arty stats as they are, but remove the stun mechanic completely? Add in a smoke shell, somehow make it give bonus exp to concealing allies (bonus for spotted allies concealed?) with some personal missions for concealing allies.

    THis does a few things;
    – there won’t be any on-shot situations
    – no annoying perma-stun
    – arty actually has some form of team support

    Like

  10. After many complains during the first season f Ranked Btls, WG said ” ok , 3 artis r too much, nobody can play” and they put a limit of 2 artis to the next Ranked Btls seasons.

    I cant understand how 3 artis r too much for ranked btls and r ok for randoms. Only WG knows.

    Nobody can play in an open map against 3 lights (BDRs) and 3 Artis.

    Like

      1. All SPG players are retards who can’t play regular tanks because it’s too demande to find weakspots, detracking etc
        Same goes to HE noobs who only score by spamming HE….remove SPG and the game will improve.

        Like

  11. ##ck WG and ##ck the stupid baboons bitching about arty that can’t play anything other than biased russian tanks shooting skill rounds like ##cking tarded and autistic normies

    Like

  12. Arty is part of the game. FULL STOP! It was there, it is there and it will be there, so stop bitching around with stupid comments like “remove arty!!”.

    Imo, what should be done is very simple: limit their number to max 1 per battle. One is fine (1 shot every 30 seconds is acceptable and when you’re a LT you’re happy to have sby actually shooting at what you’re spotting!), two is already too much, three is crazy (the battle’s HP pool is much lower and all those shells coming at you……. INSANE!!!!!!!!!)

    Another suggestion I have is to use the same principle used in World of Warships where if a part of your ship gets severely damaged, it gets “damage saturated” and thus hitting that same part results in much less damage dealt per shot. A similar mechanic should be used with the stun. The first time you get stunned it deals 100% of the effect it should do (taken into account, shell type, penetration, distance, bla bla bla), the second time maybe 80%, the third only 60%, and so on (the crew gets used to it).

    Of what proposed in this video, I agree only on the SHSL. It should give you more protection. All the rest is wrong (if you agree on the max number lowered to 1). Arty is already unbelievably RNG dependent…. no need to make it even more frustrating than what it already is.

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  13. Arty should be a support unit. It would be cool if they could scout with light flares etc, stun enemies etc but not do any damage

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  14. Broken class mostly used by autists. Remove stun and 30m splash radius and keep this amount of damage and give back the longer reload times, maybe a little more pen.

    Like

  15. I’m going to start grinding artys, just for the fun of pissing off all you arty haters. This will truly be fun.

    Like

  16. Arty is not the biggest or most annoying problem in the game. There are much more severe issues that have broken this game.

    The biggest is the gold spamming. Uniscums try to make better stats spamming only gold and thus make it annoying to play any mode of random battles. Gold (or premium) ammos should really be nerfed hard or, like somewhere was presented, better pen but much worse damage.

    The second or super OP tanks like Russian tank which are made better only because of Russian internal politics.

    The third issue is the performance superiority of medium tank class compared to any other tank class. Because they are fast dpm should be significally lower and accuracy worse. But that is not the case. They are most agile, they have best dpm and most accurate guns. Also they can hunt as wolf packs other tanks. Medium tank class needs hard nerf. Most of all russian meds need much worse dpm.

    I like to play arty because of holistic and strategic influence ability to anywhere in the map. Not just idiotic brainless cornering around one rock or a small bump in the map.

    As a compensation or stun nerf they should raise the damage of a shell or ever return AP ammos.

    But that ain’t gonna happen. WG concentrate on pampering uniscums and they cry because of arties and therefore they get what they want. Now arty nerf.

    Not so bad that there is something good. Thank you for the wheeled tanks. The only really enjoyable tanks in years since 1390 and BC25. I love to buzz around the map and cause chaos and mayhem in enemy lines.

    Liked by 1 person

  17. The only balanced SPG is a dead SPG.

    WG should have realized the obvious while we were still in closed beta, but they kept pushing on this garbage.

    Like

    1. But hey, they must keep the autistics happy won’t they? I mean those players who can’t do nothing but click and troll from a safe distance and the drown themselves when the battle is lost. We all love the positive contribution that brings to the game.

      Like

      1. Saw your name tag. I truly hope you never reproduce. There are enough people on this world like you, spewing their garbage about.

        Like

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