This is just merely a concept written up by myself, WG has made no statements to suggest this will in fact be implemented. My forum thread on the subject can be found here: http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/119711-enhancing-or-fixing-the-grozovoi-game-play-experience/
As it stands, as most people can agree, the Grozovoi, after the loss of its super AA, has become somewhat… redundant. Anything she can do other ships can do better, and as such, could use some mixing up to her statistics, and I personally have one that could give a superbly unique feature to her. Granted, her RoF buff in 0.6.3.0 is reducing her reload from 5 seconds to 4.3 seconds, which does give her a slight edge, but that will only give her a better RoF then the Khabarovsk (5s) and Shimakaze. (6s)
I would like to see optional main armament, with a particular turret design in mind. As it stands, the Grozovoi has been equipped by WG the 130 mm/58 SM-2-1 turret, an appropriate turret choice to fit the schematic design Project 40n, which calls for a twin, dual purpose 130mm gun.
Now, I am sure we can agree, World of Warships is a bit of an alternate universe, one where all these designed/proposed ship designs were actually built. The turret I have in mind, if it had been built, and considered a successful design, I could image the russian navy replacing the 130 mm/58 SM-2-1 of the Grozovoi, and other similarly weighted dual purpose weapons on other ships.
The Turret which I have in mind is the BL-127, a quad barreled 100mm/70 gun turret;
The BL-127 was a turret designed to replace/upgrade installations of the SM-5 turret, which was present as the secondary armament on five Chapaev class and twenty Sverdlov class (Pr.68bis) cruisers. (In-game, we see the turret present on the Mikhail Kutuzov, the upgraded Chapeyev, and the upgraded Dmitri Donskoi) The BL-127 used the same identical gun barrels, fired the same ammunition, without adding a significant amount of weight to the ship.
Why use this turret as an optional armament?
Well, it would give a significant difference in just how she plays, something unique, to distinguish her from her counterparts. No other ship would be like it, and I doubt there would ever be another, which is the point. When you have many different options on which tech trees to go down, why would someone pick the Grozovoi? unless she receives her OP AA again, there is nothing remarkable about the ship at all. Now, as for why I have chosen this turret in particular, I believe it could remain balanced for a number of reasons.
Firstly, you downgrade your gun caliber to upgrade the quantity of fire power per volley. The BL-127 turret, on paper atleast, supposedly retained the same 4 seconds reload that the SM-5 turrets had, now, WG can make changes on this front for balance reasons, perhaps 4.3 to keep it inline with the SM-2-1 turrets the Grozovoi allready has. Which brings me to the point in that because this turret was never built or tested, WG can modify its stats to their hearts content to make it balanced.
The gameplay would more resemble that of the Akizuki, the only DD in the game currently armed with 100mm guns. From playing her notable qualities/quirks of a 100mm guns is, for example, HE is not too effective against other DDs, making the sole case where switching to AP for shooting DDs the right thing. Just like any other DD, these 100mm guns would be quite the fire starter, I personally suggest a 4% chance for fire, as that would give the 12 gun broadside fire chance to set fire of 48%, which is average amongst the other T10 DD broadsides.
Would such a turret swap physically work?
In my personal opinion, yes, for the short answer at least. The long answer? Well, The SM-5-1, the turret the BL-127 was designed to replace, weighs 45.8 metric tons, the BL-127 turret however weighs 66 metric tons. This was, according to the engineers, not a problem and would not require any severe changes to the cruisers to implement this change. Now that is out of the way, the SM-2-1, which the Grozovoi is currently equipped with, weighs 57.3 metric tons. This means to have all 3 of these turrets replaced with the BL-127 would increase the weight of the Grozovoi by 26.1 metric tons. In-game, the Grozovoi currently weighs in grand total 3,849 tons. (I do not know if that is metric or standard tons) thus the increase on weight would be less then 0.7% weight increase to the ship. So for the tonnage concern, the weight increase is negligible. As for the width of the barbette, the BL-127 was designed to have one that is 3.95 meters wide, as the SM-2-1, I cannot find the data on that front. But I would assume it is similar, and if such a circumstance had occurred in the alternate reality that WoWS exists in, a minor difference on turret ring size would be an easily retrofitted change. Both the SM-2-1 and BL-127 are tri-axled turrets, so the mounting should be compatible with minor modifications. The ammunition elevators I would not imagine taking up more room, probably even less room, assuming the Left pair and Right pair of 100mm guns each shared their elevator, assuming all 4 guns don’t share the same munitions elevator in the first place.
In-game statistics of BL-127 as a Primary Armament
(These stats are just my own interpretation/estimations, based off of the Akizuki’s 100mm/65 Type 98 and the SM-5-1s turrets found on Kutuzov/Chapeyev/Dm.Donskoi, plus corrections for balance)
[Square bracket indicates the stats of the SM-2-1 turret of the Grozovoi as of 0.6.3.0]
Range: 10.97km [10.97km]
Reload: 5.5s [4.2s]
Fire %: 6% [8%]
180 Traverse: 16s [10s]
Dispersion: 95m [92m]
HE Dmg: 1400 [1800]
AP Dmg: 1900 [2600]
HE Vel. 1000/s [950m/s]
AP Vel. 1000m/s [950m/s]
In-Game Statistics of the BL-127 as an AA Armament
(These stats are just my own interpretation/estimations, based off of the Akizuki’s 100mm/65 Type 98 and the SM-5-1s turrets found on Kutuzov/Chapeyev/Dm.Donskoi, plus corrections for balance)
[Square bracket indicates the stats of the SM-2-1 turret of the Grozovoi as of 0.6.3.0]
Firing Range: 4.5km [5.2km]
Dmg/second: 100 [51]
Final Comments:
The biggest thing is that this ship lacks any form of character to it. It used to have OP AA, which was what it was all about, with this new setup it could have the best DD AA without giving it OP range on that AA, and rather have the damage potential be concentrated to a stronger yet shorter range. So a bit of best of both worlds. Making it an optional armament allows the ship to retain the label of historically accurate, just simply with the addition of theoretical/likely refits in a world where all these blueprint ships/weapons are actually built. Would be no different then the amount of design freedom WG has used on ships such as the Grosser Kurfurst (Which, as I understand, exists based on the fact Russia was sent by Germany rangefinder documents, one of which specified to be used a triple barreled 16 inch gun turret, thus WG designed such a turret, and a ship based on using that turret, among other loose documents) To be all in all, (ignoring that sidetrack) this would be an improvement to the Grozovoi’s gameplay experience of the player piloting the ship and those against it.
~Written by myself, IGN: Shipmaster_Crook [NA]
So total of 12 guns? That’s a new destroyer record…
Indeed.
100mm guns are just too small with the current HE/AP mechanics.
The Akizuki only semi works at tier8 because she can face tier 6/7, and it very stealthy, being able to stealth fire at very low distances.
That doesn’t work on fast RU DDs. The ballistics past 8km are worse than USN 127mm, so zipping around at 12-13km flinging anemic HE, hoping you set fires, let alone even hit so much as a BB seems even worse than the current Grozo.
That is countered by the fact you get 4 more + guns then any other DD at T10. Plus, russian accuracy.
You can have 36 guns if you want, it won’t change a thing if they have a hard time hitting anything past 8-10km because of the VERY light shell’s ballistics, and deal pitiful damage.
I don’t see why anyone in their right mind would pick 12x100mm guns over 8x130mm considering all the hoops you have to jump though just to make the 100mm guns do anything.
That is to say, IFHE and DE are an absolute must. Without those, you literally can’t hurt anything other than superstructure.
It only (barely) worked on the Akizuki at tier8, and that’s only because of 4×2 guns with stealth firing at 9km
Try playing the Akizuki on tier10 at 12km. Not fun. You only deal damage to other DDs if they broadside.
You only deal damage to cruisers if they broadside.
BBs? Hope they don’t hit you at that low range, an hope you set fires.
You guys must be a special kind of shitty player if you can’t do anything unless you’re stealth firing.
The Akizuki is absolutely competitive with T10 DDs if you have IFHE *AND* you can damage them from any angle. You can damage BB superstructure from any angle. On top of that, Akizuki has more HP at T8 than a Gearing at T10. Stealth-firign is *not* needed on _anything_ and if you think so, you really, really, really need to learn how to play the game better.
Bottom line: You fucking people need to stop sucking so much.
Source: I have an Akizuki, I have a Zao, I have a Gearing, and Khab, and other ships where people utterly insist you need stealth… but you know what? I do just fine without it because I’m not a fucking moron and i know how to play the goddamn game.
Having a ship and being good with it are two different things.
Many good players say that the Aki is simply not good. That any normal DD just does the job better.
Something you would know if you were actually any good.
Let’s see what you’re actually worth, stop using an alias.
Put up or shut up.
The thing is I actually am pretty good and I know what works and what doesn’t. IFHE may be a requirement, but you know what? It makes the Akizuki functional and when played well by someone that isn’t a fucking mouthbreather (ie, you), it does well.
Still didn’t actually give anything but an alias though.
PS: You’re a conscending cunt with a tiny prick complex.
Seek medical help you frustated manchild.
You’re an overly sensitive faggot that evidently doesn’t know shit about anything. Also, you suck.
Given the fact that your first message was a condescending mess filled with insults, I’m guessing all you have is that one arrow in your quiver.
Good luck in the world kiddo, you’ll need it.
You don’t get 12x100mm over 8x130mm, you get 12x100mm over SIX 130mm.
Twice more guns.
If you consider Akizuki to be a bad ship, then you are probably the only one around.
Akizuki don’t need to stealth fire to be viable, too.
It sounds more like you aren’t very good at the game but still manage to find this page and whine ._.
Khaba has 4×2 130mm
Also,Aki without any stealth fire is just bad.
I don’t see how you can defend a 33knot DD that takes massive AP damage, bleeds speed like crazy, only has a single very average torpedo launcher for tier8, and turns like a cruiser.
But hey, apparently it’s easier to scream L2P.
Not as if unicums on the official forums are complaining that the Aki is a situational ship with SF, and downright unworkable without it or anything.
Thats why the Akizuki got a range buff to her guns, to make her stronger to counter the weakening she is suffering from losing the stealth fire.
Traded her stealth fire for range.
Oh yeah amazing, the ship with the worst ballistics in the game past 8km gets a range buff.
You want to take AFT on your USN DDs while you’re at it?
15 seconds time to target for a target 14km away maybe?
Akizuki works incredibly well with IFHE. It’s a necessary requirement. She has the volume of fire and HP to stand easily stand against a Gearing or Khab and win.
Source: I do it all the time
Aki FUNCTIONS with IFHE.
As in, it doesn’t if you don’t.
That’s a 4 point skill you HAVE to invest in order to deal damage.
Also, if a Gearing loses to an Akizuki, that Gearing should uninstall.
Lastly, an Akizuki functions because it can stealth fire. It can get close and use its guns, which have horrendous ballistics.
Take that away, and you’re just using worse versions of the USN 127mm.
Why in god’s name would you trade the very functional 130mm for something inherently worse?
Look at the tier8 Kiev currently.
It’s outperforming the Aki, despite not being able to stealthfire or having good torpedoes.
Why would you WANT to go into a tier10 battle where a lot of ships are 100mm IFHE proof?
Back to stealth firing. Jesus Christ. Is that the only way people like you can fucking play? Seriously? I can’t wait for 6.3 to drop. All of you that are so dependent on stealth are going to be in a world of hurt and your “Come to Jesus” moment is going to be amazing. I hope I’m there for the raging.
Again – learn to play the game. Every single ship in the game can be played well, with or without stealth. You don’t actually *need* it to be good, you just have to be good. Which you’re apparently not.
Sorry dawg, but I’m going to continue being a condescending cunt because I’m smarter than you and better than you. Suck a dick, cocksucker.
As I said, condescending tiny prick complex.
Grow up kiddo.
i like the idea. maybe 2 quad turrets. or 1 quad in front and 2 double in the back.
would certainly make the ship different and “cooler”
as someone above sad there are many problems with 100mm guns, not only damage, penetration and long range ballistic are problem, but in order to gave any good ability to engage enemy ships (especially against enemy DD) you need to have IFHE (+DE to preserve fire chance), with means that when using full AA build you are lacking ability to damage enemy ships and enemy DD will turn you intro EXP pinata (if they aren’t brain dead).
additional historical info:
muzzle velocity for HE, AA rounds (no AP listed, but probably as with Akizuki it can be made up) 1000m/s (or 995m/s to be precise)
rate of fire: BL-127: 16-18RPM
train rate: 30 degree/s
shell ballistic are superior to Akizuki with max range of 24.2km at 49 degree elevation compared to Akizuki 19.5km at 45 degree
I disagree with you in 1 point … the fire chanse 4% on a T10 Ship is no acceptable when you compare it to the Akizuki Which has 5% at T8 and we are speaking about a Ship at T10
i think 6% is more acceptable Since The Secondaries of the kutuzov and the chapayev has 6% and they are the russian 100mm guns in the game
I artificially constrianed the chance for the in-eveitible whiners who would whine that 12 gunned DD with good fire chance would be extremeley OP.
Personally, I agree with you.
Hmm, apparently it gets 20% higher shell mass (15.6kg vs 13kg) than Akizuki + most likely smaller drag values.
Meaning energy loses (and thus increase in shell flight time) would be slower than in IJN boat. It can work as a massive troll.
One thing that triggers me is how most people add up fire chance. 4% fire probability per shell DOES NOT equal 48% when 12 shells hit. Every single shell is independent from the next, they all have 4% probability to set a fire and while the probability to have “one fire” started does increase the more you hit it doesn’t do so linearly. In this scenario, if you hit your 12 HE shells, in theory you’d have about 38.7% probability to set a fire…
But it’s way more complicated than that in WoWS since the higher the tier, the higher the base fire chance reduction included with the hull. Tier 10s for instance have about a 50% reduction in fire chance but I digress.
Stop adding up fire chances. Maths don’t work like that.
Phew, that felt good 😀
Well the comments section escalated quickly. 100mm guns can’t really be competitive without IFHE, back when I used the Akizuki before the captain rework patch, I had to spam AP and I’d get murdered by bow on Destroyers. One game I remember is when a Yugumo chased me down and murdered me and I couldn’t kill him because he was bow on at medium range so I couldn’t even go for superstructure shots.
To use the newly suggested Grozovoi, one would have to use atleast a 10 point captain, and most likely want a 19 point captain. Granted, a tier 10 Destroyer would have a high point captain, but it need not be a requirement. Armed with IFHE, she could perform, but even then, she’s a rather big target, so range and speed would be required. (the speed part cannot be said about Akizuki.) Overall, I suppose it could work, I’m sure eating 12 IFHE 100mm shells would leave a dent on any ship.
Can we have 100 bofors as main guns??
There were also a similar turret (to BL-127) designated BL-132 but with 130mm guns…