Japanese TD line proposal, Part I

Hello everyone, today I would like to propose a new line containing the Japanese tank destroyers, as it would be a potentially unique (especially in high tiers) and also more or less historically accurate line, especially compared to the Japanese heavies.

The line can be divided into three parts:

  • Tier 2-5: tanks that have poor armor, good guns and pretty average mobility;
  • Tier 6-7: which resemble the tier 2-5 but takes their traits and stretches them into more extreme levels;
  • Tier 8-10: which are especially unique vehicles based on the Chi-Ri’s hull.

In first part of the article we take a detailed look at the tiers 2-5, while the next part focuses on the tiers 6-10.

Keep in mind that the alpha damage and penetration statistics are the ones of the elite gun, except if there is an alternative gun option, in which case the alternative gun’s statistics are also listed. The elite gun is always listed as the last gun option.

 

Tier 2: Ho-Ru

 

The Ho-Ru-project started as late as 1945, based on the hull of the badly outdated Ha-Go light tank, recycling the otherwise outdated hull. The tank was designed to be a cheap, small design that would be easily transportable. Its casemate was open-topped while the main armament was a 47mm gun. Only one prototype was produced as Japan lost the war before mass production could ever start.

Crew: 3

Weight: ~6 tons

Armor: 12 / 12 / 10

Engine: 120hp, 135hp (upgrade)

Top speed: 45

HP: 115

Gun: 47 mm Type 1

Alpha damage: 70/70/90 (AP / AP / HE)

Penetration: 81/122/25

Gun depression/elevation: -10 / +20

A fast, tiny, poorly armored TD. Similarly to the other tier 2 TDs, the Ho-Ru is not a particularly unique vehicle.

 

Tier 3: Ku-Se

 

The Ku-Se certainly looks quite unusual. Based on the hull of the Ke-Ho light tank, the Ku-Se was meant to be fitted with either the 7.5 cm gun Type 99 or the Experimental 57 mm Tank Gun Shin. The top speed of the tank was up to 50 kph, making the vehicle pretty mobile. However, it had paper thin armor and a relatively high shilouette. No prototypes were produced as only one prototype of the Ke-Ho itself was produced at end of the WWII.

Crew: 4 (?)

Weight: ~10 tons

Armor: 20 / 16 / 12

Engine: 150 hp

Top speed: 50

HP: 150

Gun: 47 mm Type 1 (stock), 7.5 cm Tank Gun Type 99, Experimental 57 mm Tank Gun Shin

Alpha damage: 110 / 110 / 165 (AP / HEAT / HE, 7.5 cm Type 99),  75 / 75 / 100 (AP / AP / HE, 57 mm Tank Gun Shin)

Penetration: 70 / 100 / 38 (75 mm Type 99), 87 / 131 / 20 (57 mm Shin)

Gun depression/elevation: -15 / +20

The Ku-Se would be a pretty strong tier 3 TD.  The choice of two competitive guns, good mobility and outstanding gun depression would be the trademark features of the vehicle. However, it would have a rather low gun arc, practically no armor and a somewhat high, akward silhouette.

 

Tier 4: Ho-Ni I

The Ho-Ni I is based on the hull of the Chi-Ha, and is the first part of the Ho-Ni-series. The Ho-Ni I looks quite similar to the Panzerjäger I with a 76 mm gun mounted on an open casemate. However the Ho-Ni I also gets a 105 mm howitzer as an alternative gun option; in which case the tank effectively becomes the Ho-Ni II. 26 of the “Type 1” variants were ever built.

Crew: 5

Weight: 15,4 tons

Armor: 25 / 25 / 20

Engine: 170 HP, 240 HP (upgrade)

Top speed: 38

HP: 270

Gun: 75 mm Type 90 (stock), 75 mm Type 3, Type 91 105 mm howitzer

Alpha damage: 110 / 110 / 165 (AP / AP / HE, 75 mm Type 3), 350 / 350 / 410 (AP / HEAT / HE, Type 91 105 mm)

Penetration: 90 / 112 / 35 (75 mm Type 3), 70 / 105 / 48 (Type 91 105 mm)

Gun depression/elevation: -10 / +20

The Ho-Ni I has less mobility compared to the Ku-Se, but it regains the wide gun arc and gets more powerful guns.

 

Tier 5: Ho-Ni III

The Ho-Ni III is the final design of the Ho-Ni-series. Unlike the earlier two Ho-Ni variants, the Ho-Ni III has a fully enclosed casemate for better crew protection. A total of 31 Ho-Ni IIIs were produced. Historically, it mounted the Type 90 75 mm gun, which is the Chi-Nu’s historical gun, but that obviously isn’t strong enough for a tier 5 TD. That is why the Ho-Ni III gets two gun upgrades: the Type 5 75 mm, the top gun of the Chi-Nu, and the 75 mm Type 5 model I, which is the same gun as on the Chi-To. This gun is adequate for a tier 5 TD.

Crew: 4

Weight: 17 tons

Armor: 25 / 25 / 20

Engine: 170 HP, 240 HP (upgrade)

Top speed: 38

HP: 380

Gun: 75 mm Type 3 (stock), 75 mm Type 5, 75 mm Type 5 model 1

Alpha damage: 130 / 130 / 175

Penetration: 155 / 186 / 38

Gun depression/elevation: -10 / +20

The Ho-Ni III’s main features are an accurate gun with good penetration and good gun depression, but extremely weak armor. It plays very much like the Ho-Ni I but with much better penetration.

Conclusion:

The low-tier Japanese TDs are not too interesting vehicles. They are pretty similar to the majority of the low-tier TDs: poor armor, average mobility and potent guns. However, as we go up to the tiers 6 and 7, we will have unusual looking, open-topped designs with practically no armor but quite powerful guns. At tier 8 the line changes further, becoming especially unique. They might resemble some of the high-tier German TDs, namely the Ferdinand and the Jagdtiger – but only in looks. In reality, there are no comparable vehicles in the game! What if you fused a Chi-Ri and an Object 263 together? You will see that in the 2nd part of my Japanese TD line proposal!

Advertisements

34 thoughts on “Japanese TD line proposal, Part I

  1. Excellent!
    These should really be added! I can’t wait for the next part, seeing new, unique tanks is always a delight!
    Thank you for the article, legga!
    (Note: Article edited to improve quality, by me!)

    Liked by 6 people

  2. Very interesting :)
    And as all of these are historical and look rather balanced ; I see no reason why they would not be added in the game at some point. Cant wait for part 2

    Liked by 1 person

      1. The tier 9 kinda looks like a Jagdtiger, but yea, I guess when you think about it, 212A with 152 mm gun mounted on looks quite similar. However, there are no Japanese TDs with 152 mm guns, unless you make Ho-Ro or Ho-Chi (which is basically Ho-Ro but with O-I’s 150 mm instead of the 150 mm Ho-Ro has) as TDs.

        Liked by 1 person

        1. would not work, the Ho-Ro has about 60mm of pen with AP and 50mm with HE @100m
          furthermore you are making a wrong assumption because the Ho-Ro used a Type 38 (1905) while the O-I was to use the Type 96 (1937) which could pen 125mm @230m, the difference should seem obvious because the Type 38 was L11 (1.96m) while the Type 96 was L23 (3.523m) in length
          however the Ho-Chi was indeed designed with a longer 15cm gun, don’t know which but due to availability may have indeed be the same as the O-I, still it was only a Chi-Ha hull not fit for tier 9

          Like

    1. The only tier where it becomes bit problematic is the tier 9 (there is a fine tier 10 candidate), but I guess that it would be still possible to balance it with just proper DPM, HP etc.

      And even if we use bit a dark magic at tier 9 on armor or something if necessary, the line would be still significantly more historical than the Japanese heavy line, and i dont think having 100% historical accuracy on every tank is absolute must if the line is otherwise hard to implement (as long as there are no completely fake tanks).

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Because it was sooo god when you duked us all with Japan Heavies!!! Just kidding Leggasiini, your contribution here is a great thing, I’m glad that you’re posting. But I will keep being the asshole that I am, and continue NO-ing anything related to you, please don’t be bothered by my retardedness and keep up a good work!!!

        P.S. whenever I see your nick I think of leggings and that arouses me :) :) :)

        Like

  3. overall it seems to be the same as any other Japanese TD proposal, still I have to say you are forgetting alternatives
    the tier 1 was in fact the 11th gun tank (TD/assault gun) designed by the japanese
    Ho describes the class, gun tank in this case, while Ru describes the entry of the completed design, 11th in this case
    looking at the proposal we have the 11th (Ho-Ru), 4th (Ho-Ni 1/2/3) and 9th (Ho-Ri 1/2/3) TDs out of at least 11 designed (15 if you consider Ho-Ni/Ri 2/3), this means there are 8 other “gun tanks” to use as alternatives
    (by ascendent numerical order, 1st»»11th)
    Ho-I, turreted design with the same short 75mm gun as the Ku-Se on a Chi-He chassis, 40mm with AP and 76 with HEAT
    Ho-Ro, 150mm derp on chi-ha chassis, 60mm with AP and 50 with HE @100m
    Ho-Ha, apparently unknown? prototype known by other designation?
    Ho-Ni
    Ho-Ho, unknown? prototype known by other designation?
    Ho-He, unknown? prototype known by other designation?
    Ho-To, same as Ho-Ru but with a 120mm derp, apparently
    Ho-Chi, 15cm(150mm) derp on Chi-Ha chassis (similar to Ho-Ni 1, with bigger gun), probably same gun has O-I (AP 125mm pen @230mm), longer barrel than Ho-Ro 15cm derp
    Ho-Ri
    Ho-Nu, unknown? prototype known by other designation?
    Ho-Ru

    then there are some obsolete low tier tanks like the 105mm Hi-Ro Sha (gun-shield) and the 15cm Ji-Ro Sha (ferdinand-like casemate), both based on the Type 95
    there is also 2 120mm SPGs based on Chi-Ha chassis, one with a modified turret mounting a DERP 120mm capable of firing a HEAT round with 140mm pen, while the other had the turret removed and a long 120mm cannon mounted on top with no gun-shield (the gun should perform similar to the 10cm on the Ho-Ri)
    between known TDs and other experimental designs there are enough options for 2 low+mid tier lines, high tiers are limited to the Ho-Ri’s until new ones are found like “recently” a few heavy and medium tanks were, the top Ho-Ri was to have 120mm of armour @60º in the UFP, casemate was weaker

    Like

    1. The type 95 TD VARIANT can open another TD line in the Japanese tech tree this time as a form of Heavy TAnk destroyer’s pretty much like t110e3 tech tree line sluggish armored TD but prone to out maneuver in open maps but good aim time and HT reload time xD

      Like

      1. No.

        2nd TD line is impossible, and the Type 95 TDs can only hit the tier 5-6.

        And they wouldnt be anything like T110E3. Type 95’s armor is already practically useless at tier 4, let alone tier 5-6 that those TDs would fit in. If anything they would be like the TDs on this line but Maus-levels of mobility and somewhat derpy guns. Imagine derpier Churchill GCs with even less armor…

        Like

      2. impossible to build a second TD line HOWEVER it is possible to have a alternative line up to mid tiers, mainly DERPs but also the Chi-Ha with a 120mm cannon for tier 6/7
        still it would be even more of a glass cannon/DERP mini-line than the german WT line
        the 2 variations of SPG/TD/gun tank on the Type 95 chassis would be “hellish” to balance, tier 2 armour+low mobility, one open-toped with Ho-Ni II 105mm and the other with casemate and 15cm DERP-ish cannon (if this is the same as used for O-I, it becomes a tier 5/6 gun on a tier 2/3 chassis)

        Like

    1. Humm yeah and it seems that they are doing pretty well at “fixing” the game with the OP tier 8 premiums spam and the retarded buffs to super-heavy tanks… :)

      Ah, and I should add that they don’t plan to limit prem ammo load. So, game fixes are in a deadend indeed..

      Like

    1. The Chi-Ha with short 12cm would work as alternate tier 5 MT that would connect to arty line and then as side-step to Chi-Nu. Think like KV-2.

      There will be part 3 which will handle premium candidates.

      Like

    1. why do prototypew make you puke? because they aren’t real? unhistorical? did not fight?
      if you can prove to me a completely historical simulator would be “fun I would agree the prototypes were not needed, but you can’t
      for those who truly like tanks the prototypes, and even some projects, were important in finding new things for future vehicles, and for those who simply like machines every vehicle can be interesting, if nothing else to at least lern what not to do

      returning to no-prototypes issue, would it be fun to always play the Panther vs the 1944/45 T-54s? even some T-44s would be too much for the Panther, and what about using Pz.IIIs and IVs vs Valentines and Matildas which they could nop pen IRL, would it be fun?
      what about US Army Shermans simply outclassing, overpower and outnumber any Pz.III and IV it faced IRL, would that be fun?

      let’s say you play «Men of War», it is a fact that the germans, americans and brits only have the machines used in WWII available however when you face the germans they keep pouring out tanks which is unhistorical, but then why did they do that? because without prototypes their main workforce (Pz.III, IV and some Panthers) cannot overwhelm the allied tanks

      prototypes can help balance a GAME and also work to keep a GAME fresh, the more exotic the better

      Like

    1. Chi-Ha Short 12cm is IIRC not considered as TD. In WT for example it is listed as medium tank. And the 12cm gun is same as the stock derp on O-I Exp, which is absolutely not tier 7 material.

      The Chi-Ha with long naval 12cm is imo probably the best premium candidate to train crew before full line appears, though, as tier 6-7. It fits the criteria of premium tank pretty well (unusual design).

      Like

      1. it’s true, IRL the Chi-Ha 12cm NS was deployed in ports as a mobile battery, the gun is afterall derived from a naval anti-shiping/submarine 12cm gun, it even had a anti-shiping HE round and a anti-sub APHE round

        Like

  4. Pls add the Ho ro. Tier 2 tank with 150mm Howitzer in War Thunder. Also the O no can be based off the war thunder model

    Like

  5. Agree but …….. If they gonna add the chi ri TD variants then the chi ri tier 7mt will received the 10 cm as a third Top gun on its module tree it will be like the
    tier 5 75mm leads to the 75mm type 5 model 1(non-autoloading) it’s​ then lead to the 75mm single tray autoloader (the ౩-shell ) then at the end of the 75mm line is the 75mm belt feed autoloading type 5 model 1 (13 shell autoloading gun)
    The top turret leads to the 88mm then leads to the 10 cm which then leads to the ho ri 1

    If my theory is correct the chi ri will then be buffed ie Type 5 model 1’s (non-autoloading, Single-Tray autoloading gun, Belt-feed Autoloading gun) penetration from 155mm –165mm only difference is damage and rate of fire in the three guns the non-autoloading gun deals an excellent dmg 150 ish the Single-Tray one deals mediocre dmg 120 ish and the Belt-feed Autoloading one deals the lowest at 85 dmg but what compensates the poor damage per shot a of the belt feed is it’s rate of fire what which makes the Belt-feed a must have with a rate of fire of 25 ish it can dish out multiple opponents but reload is shit since it’s a belt-feed one this open opportunity to players to flanking since the tank only weighted 37 tons also the engine can reach a 45kph top speed which is great for flanking an enemy
    The non-autoloading guns ie 88 and 105 makes the chi ri a TD/medium gameplay but it’s not advisable to kempf bush since your big as a tiger || so yeah a fast flanking large medium tank with different kinds of arsenal and different ways on killing the enemy

    Like

    1. I am pretty sure to have read EVERY archive digger on japanese tanks (both WoT and WT) confirm the whole idea of turning the 88mm into a tank gun for the whole Chi-Ri project to be a hoax, afterall they were already working on the Type 5 75mm and 10cm guns

      Like

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s